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Barack Obama Would Take Back Vote Helping Terri Schiavo
LifeNews.com ^ | February 26, 2008 | Steven Ertelt

Posted on 02/26/2008 8:21:18 PM PST by SErtelt

by Steven Ertelt LifeNews.com Editor February 26, 2008

Cleveland, OH (LifeNews.com) -- Senator Barack Obama debated his Democratic rival Hillary Clinton on Tuesday night and said his biggest mistake was voting to help save Terri Schiavo. Terri is the disabled Florida woman whose husband won the legal right to starve her to death.

(Excerpt) Read more at lifenews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: assistedsuicide; barackobama; euthanasia; moralabsolutes; obama; prolife; schiavo; terrischiavo
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To: Swordfished; wagglebee; floriduh voter; dbehsman; EternalVigilance; LilAngel; BykrBayb
>>I don't have strong feelings either way about the Schiavo case (except against the zealots on either side) and I am in no way 'anti-life' or a 'deathbot' - the kind of people using this language I try not to bother even having a conversation with. Society can take away your life (capital punishment) when you've harmed society...but it doesn't work the other way: Society can't force you to keep living just because you've been a blessing to society.

Then perhaps you would have a happier life on a different forum where the compromises you make with life issues would be welcome. We are a pro-life forum here and no matter who responds to your assertions, you just "don't get it". So long as you present these foggy mantras of the left and the death enthusiasts, you are inviting our response with truth and evidence since nothing you present is new, simply rehash from the loony left. You have pegged yourself to perfection here.

If I were you, I would be embarrassed to wind up a sounding board for these enemies of life, but, hey, keep it coming. It helps us show visitors the types of detractors we get, along with their dog-eared mantras even the brighter lefties scrapped. Your presence here does serve a useful purpose if you don't mind looking foolish to conservatives.

>>....and I am in no way 'anti-life' or a 'deathbot' - the kind of people using this language I try not to bother even having a conversation with.

You are right, I prefer the term I coined, bot fly. Learn the life of a bot fly and you will understand.(Apply preposition of your choice at the end of this sentence...)

101 posted on 02/28/2008 12:52:17 PM PST by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Swordfished; 8mmMauser; floriduh voter; BykrBayb
I don't have strong feelings either way about the Schiavo case (except against the zealots on either side) and I am in no way 'anti-life' or a 'deathbot' - the kind of people using this language I try not to bother even having a conversation with. Society can take away your life (capital punishment) when you've harmed society...but it doesn't work the other way: Society can't force you to keep living just because you've been a blessing to society.

What a load of BS!

There are a couple hundred threads a day posted on FR and there are quite a few that are about subjects I have no interest in, so I ignore them. But, to say that you don't really care about who lives and dies is the same as saying that you will do nothing to protect human life.

Moreover, society wasn't trying to "force" Terri to live, Terri was physically healthy. People were trying to keep her from being murdered.

Life is precious, but it's not so black and white. Is life spent in excruciating pain precious? Is it precious to the person experiencing the pain? Obviously not.

"It's not so black and white," there you go with the nuances again -- just like a liberal. I do find it ironic that Terri's murderers said she couldn't feel anything (except the "euphoria" of being dehydrated), so what is this "pain" you speak of?

The judicial process worked itself out - even all the way up to the Florida and U.S. Supreme Court. 'Justice' was served (due process), no matter what one's personal opinion.

1. Get your facts straight, because it's clear that you don't know what you are talking about.
2. Please furnish a link to the grand jury indictment where Terri was indicted for a capital crime as is specifically REQUIRED under our Constitution or a link to a SCOTUS ruling that permits the execution of someone without an indictment.

102 posted on 02/28/2008 1:08:31 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: fetal heart beats by 21st day

Notice he didn’t respond to me.


103 posted on 02/28/2008 8:42:24 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: Republican Wildcat

I am certainly not surprised. That might require actually addressing a few facts, instead of repeating the talking points of death promoters.


104 posted on 02/29/2008 3:50:28 AM PST by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
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To: Swordfished

No, there was no due process for Terri.

She committed no crime.

The man who claimed to be her husband wanted her dead so he could legally live with his mistress, with an enhanced bank account.

Terri was murdered by court order.

Killing innocent people is murder.

When the govt endorses, approves, or enables someone’s murder, it is a violation of the constitution.

Barack Obama may be many things, but constitutional scholar he is not.

Maybe you should spend a little time studying your terms before you attempt to use them on a prolife discussion site like FR.


105 posted on 02/29/2008 3:58:36 AM PST by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
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To: fetal heart beats by 21st day
No, there was no due process for Terri.

She committed no crime.

You all are framing her rights around your assertion that this was an execution for a crime? That's preposterous.

106 posted on 02/29/2008 5:52:50 AM PST by Swordfished
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To: 8mmMauser
Then perhaps you would have a happier life on a different forum where the compromises you make with life issues would be welcome. We are a pro-life forum here and no matter who responds to your assertions, you just "don't get it".

I'm perfectly happy here - there are numerous libertarian-leaning Freepers out there, I'm not the only one. And, there is a long history of balancing freedom and safety/life - it ISN'T a black and white issue, not matter how many times you repeat the opposite to yourself.

If I were you, I would be embarrassed to wind up a sounding board for these enemies of life, but, hey, keep it coming.

So do you label those who speak out against helmet-laws 'enemies of life'? What about those who support capital punishment? 'Enemies of life' - hard to find a larger strawman than that.

107 posted on 02/29/2008 6:05:18 AM PST by Swordfished
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To: dbehsman
Congratulations. After a couple of posts, you still have failed to back up your original assertion. Since reading comprehension seems to escape you, let me ask again. Do you care to point out precisely where in the Constitution it says that a husband has the right to starve his wife to death? Can you please tell us where in the Constitution it says that in controversies involving life and death decisions, we should error to the side of death? Can you please tell us where in the Constitution it says what the IQ level of a person is before they loose their human rights?

I believe those passages in the Constitution are right next to the ones condoning the drowning of kittens.

You pointed out a couple of lines in the Constitution about due process and appropriate legislation.

Yes, I did. You and other posters are pretending you're arguing the case before the Supreme Court--you're not. They REJECTED the case.

That does not answer my questions, it only raises new ones. Didn’t Terri have a right to a trial by a jury of her peers?

She didn't commit a crime, why would she have this right?

Didn’t Terri have protection against cruel and unusual punishment?

Yes.

What crime did Terri commit that warranted the death penalty?

She didn't receive the death penalty. She wasn't 'executed'. No I can see why some are so emotional about this - they believe Terri was executed for a crime she didn't commit. How ridiculous.

108 posted on 02/29/2008 6:24:58 AM PST by Swordfished
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To: Swordfished; EternalVigilance; 8mmMauser; Pinkbell; dbehsman; wagglebee

Back to square one:

The US Constitution forbids the federal govt, via the 5th amendment, from depriving any person of life, liberty, or property without DUE PROCESS.

The 14th amendment forbids state and local govts, as well as federal govts, from the same action.

In other words,life, liberty, and property can only be taken in compensation for a crime-one which the person committed and, after his DUE Process rights have been exercised, and the person is convicted of such crime, only then can his life(capital punishment), liberty(incarceration), and/or property(fines, confiscation of material possessions,etc.)be taken from him.

You made the claim that Barack Obama was right in asserting that the action to attempt to defend her life, taken by the US Congress, in complete harmony with their sworn duty to defend the US Constitution, which requires them to defend innocent Americans, was a violation of the US Constitution.

Obama lied, and you agreed with him.


109 posted on 02/29/2008 10:14:25 AM PST by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
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To: Swordfished

Execution is the killing of a person. Terri was killed. She was starved to death, and her parents were forbidden, via court order, from even giving her a sip of water.


110 posted on 02/29/2008 10:16:42 AM PST by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
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To: Swordfished
She wasn't 'executed'.

Not only was she executed, it was done by the cruelest and most unusual of means.

And it happened because a tinpot probate judge, a local Republican poohbah, ORDERED that it WOULD be so.

111 posted on 02/29/2008 10:17:19 AM PST by EternalVigilance (With "Republicans" like these, who needs Democrats??)
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To: fetal heart beats by 21st day
In other words,life, liberty, and property can only be taken in compensation for a crime-one which the person committed and, after his DUE Process rights have been exercised, and the person is convicted of such crime, only then can his life(capital punishment), liberty(incarceration), and/or property(fines, confiscation of material possessions,etc.)be taken from him.

Amendment 5, as you correctly state, relates to a person accused of a crime. Amendment 14 makes no mention of crime. Government regularly deprives life, liberty, and property with due process of law (property taxes, income taxes, safety regulations, etc.) A crime doesn't have to be committed for the principle to apply - only if you look at Amendment 5 in isolation.

from the debate transcript:

RUSSERT: Senator Obama, any statements or vote you'd like to take back?

OBAMA: Well, you know, when I first arrived in the Senate that first year, we had a situation surrounding Terri Schiavo. And I remember how we adjourned with a unanimous agreement that eventually allowed Congress to interject itself into that decisionmaking process of the families.

It wasn't something I was comfortable with, but it was not something that I stood on the floor and stopped. And I think that was a mistake, and I think the American people understood that that was a mistake. And as a constitutional law professor, I knew better.

All I said is I applaud him for his reversal based on his knowledge of constitutional law.

Perhaps he was alluding to item 5 of Amendment 14:
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

That's a very vague phrase, 'by appropriate legislation'. to pretend this is all black and white is just wrong.

In our system of Federalism, private domestic matters are the jurisdiction of the states, not the federal government. And legislatures can't override final, binding court decisions just because they don't like the results.

Your assertion that Obama 'lied' is meaningless - he expressed his opinion and I agreed with him, that doesn't make us liars.

112 posted on 02/29/2008 11:57:37 AM PST by Swordfished
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To: fetal heart beats by 21st day
Execution is the killing of a person. Terri was killed. She was starved to death, and her parents were forbidden, via court order, from even giving her a sip of water.

execution:
3. The act or an instance of putting to death or being put to death as a lawful penalty.

Don't you mean 'murder' by the state - like the Nazi and Soviets did?

113 posted on 02/29/2008 12:04:38 PM PST by Swordfished
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To: EternalVigilance
Not only was she executed, it was done by the cruelest and most unusual of means.

This we can agree on - there ought to have been a better and less potentially painful means.

And it happened because a tinpot probate judge, a local Republican poohbah, ORDERED that it WOULD be so.

The system isn't perfect, nor ever will it be.

114 posted on 02/29/2008 12:08:23 PM PST by Swordfished
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To: Swordfished
Well, I am glad we are having a more precise discussion of the terms involved. It is important to be clear on what was done to Terri Schiavo, an innocent, disabled woman, who was killed/executed/murdered in a cruel and unusual fashion despite the fact that she had committed no crime. I have copied definitions of execution below from yourdictionary.com Note a under law, which was done by the judge in signing her death by starvation warrant and the "death by official order." Note aslo the multiple synonyms for execution. execution Definition ex·ecu·tion (ek′si kyo̵̅o̅′s̸hən) noun the act of executing; specif., a carrying out, doing, producing, etc. a putting to death as in accordance with a legally imposed sentence the manner of doing or producing something, as of performing a piece of music or a role in a play Archaic effective action, esp. of a destructive nature Law a writ or order, issued by a court, giving authority to put a judgment into effect the legal method afforded for the enforcement of a judgment of a court the act of carrying out the provisions of such a writ or order the making valid of a legal instrument, as by signing, sealing, and delivering Etymology: ME execucion < Anglo-Fr < OFr execution < L executio, exsecutio: see executor execution Synonyms execution n. The carrying out of instructions or plans fulfilling, accomplishment, doing; see achievement 1, 2, performance 1. Death by official order capital punishment, killing, electrocution, hanging, gassing, lethal injection, beheading, decapitation, guillotining, strangulation, contract killing, strangling, crucifixion, martyrdom, impalement, shooting, burning at the stake, death penalty, ultimate penalty, electric chair, firing squad, the gallows, the rope, the block, the chair*, the ax*.
115 posted on 02/29/2008 2:45:23 PM PST by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
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To: Swordfished; fetal heart beats by 21st day; 8mmMauser; floriduh voter; BykrBayb
Amendment 5, as you correctly state, relates to a person accused of a crime.

Then what does THIS mean?:

nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

In our system of Federalism, private domestic matters are the jurisdiction of the states, not the federal government.

What about the Federal Laws for Civil Rights on the Basis of Disability or the Americans with Disabilities Act?

Under theFlorida Constitution:

All natural persons, female and male alike, are equal before the law and have inalienable rights, among which are the right to enjoy and defend life and liberty, to pursue happiness, . . . No person shall be deprived of any right because of race, religion, national origin, or physical disability.

And legislatures can't override final, binding court decisions just because they don't like the results.

But, under the Florida Constitution, the governor can:

The governor may initiate judicial proceedings in the name of the state against any executive or administrative state, county or municipal officer to enforce compliance with any duty or restrain any unauthorized act.

Your assertion that Obama 'lied' is meaningless - he expressed his opinion and I agreed with him, that doesn't make us liars.

You've proven yourself to be a liberaltarian anarchist, it's not surprising that you will agree with liberals far more than you will with conservatives.

116 posted on 02/29/2008 5:51:28 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Swordfished
This we can agree on - there ought to have been a better and less potentially painful means.

It doesn't matter if they "put her to sleep" peacefully. It's still murder. I find your blase attitude toward her killing to be repulsive.

The system isn't perfect, nor ever will it be.

Since when in America is "the system" allowed to kill innocent people??

117 posted on 02/29/2008 6:49:07 PM PST by EternalVigilance (With "Republicans" like these, who needs Democrats??)
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To: dbehsman
The libertarians wanted Terri dead so that they could show that they weren't like Bush or the Christian community.

The libertarians wanted her dead because they didn't want the federal and state government's again, setting a precedent of intruding on other people's lives. 

118 posted on 02/29/2008 7:02:24 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (There is no alternative to the GOP except varying degrees of insanity)
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To: BigSkyFreeper
The libertarians wanted her dead because they didn't want the federal and state government's again, setting a precedent of intruding on other people's lives.

That's a lie.

The libertarians deliberately chose to see a brain damaged woman executed in the slowest and cruelest manner possible just to prove a point. And what was their point? Their point was that they love license more than they love life. What was their motive? Bigotry. Just good old fashioned anti-Christian bigotry.

Enjoy your victory while it lasts.
119 posted on 03/01/2008 4:58:30 AM PST by dbehsman (Libertarians make poor humanitarians.)
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To: Swordfished; wagglebee; floriduh voter; dbehsman; EternalVigilance; LilAngel; BykrBayb; ...
I'm perfectly happy here - there are numerous libertarian-leaning Freepers out there, I'm not the only one. And, there is a long history of balancing freedom and safety/life - it ISN'T a black and white issue, not matter how many times you repeat the opposite to yourself.

Please ping them. I'm always looking for an opportunity to show libertarians what a bunch of blood thirsty savages they are.

So do you label those who speak out against helmet-laws 'enemies of life'? What about those who support capital punishment? 'Enemies of life' - hard to find a larger strawman than that.

The deathbots (like yourself) are the ones who advocated and worked very hard to see an innocent woman executed in the slowest and cruelest way possible.

And you're all hot and bothered by it because we called you on it.
120 posted on 03/01/2008 5:05:55 AM PST by dbehsman (Libertarians make poor humanitarians.)
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