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MEDIA & 'NAM: LESSONS FOR IRAQ
New York Post ^ | February 25, 2008 | ARTHUR HERMAN

Posted on 02/25/2008 10:56:32 AM PST by vietvet67

CRITICS of the war in Iraq like to claim they "oppose the mission" but "support the troops." But the experience of Vietnam shows that turning our backs on the mission always means turning our backs on the courage of those who fought for that mission, and what they achieved through their skill and sacrifice.

Consider the battle that ended 40 years ago today, when US Marines and Army of the Republic of Vietnam (ARVN) troops retook the Imperial Palace at Hue, South Vietnam's third largest city, from Communist forces after a 27-day siege.

The fight for Hue tested the Marines in Vietnam as never before - and still offers vital lessons as we contemplate wars present and future.

Hue demonstrated how the media could distort American courage and success into a narrative of stalemate and defeat, with tragic political consequences. It also revealed how that narrative cheated US servicemen of the recognition they deserved for their skill and valor.

Aside from those who served there, few now know what the Marines accomplished at Hue. After 40 years, it's time to set the record straight.

The communist attack on the city was part of North Vietnam's 1968 Tet offensive. Viet Cong units had infiltrated the city dressed as ordinary civilians and after midnight on Jan. 30, 1968, they seized key strongpoints. Five thousand North Vietnamese Army (NVA) troops also swarmed down on the city.

There were no American units in or near Hue, and half of South Vietnamese troops were off duty because of the declared Tet cease-fire.

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: infowar; lessons; liberalmedia; vietnam

1 posted on 02/25/2008 10:56:33 AM PST by vietvet67
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To: vietvet67; SandRat; freema
"But the experience of Vietnam shows that turning our backs on the mission always means turning our backs on the courage of those who fought for that mission, and what they achieved through their skill and sacrifice."
2 posted on 02/25/2008 11:00:20 AM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: vietvet67; Ditto
Statistics about the Vietnam War
3 posted on 02/25/2008 11:07:56 AM PST by ASA Vet
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To: ASA Vet

Good article. Thanks for the bump.


4 posted on 02/25/2008 12:03:25 PM PST by Ditto (Global Warming: The 21st Century's Snake Oil)
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To: kellynla
Medal of Honor GONZALEZ, ALFREDO

* Rank and organization: Sergeant, U.S. Marine Corps, Company A, 1st Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division (Rein), FMF

Place and date: Near Thua Thien, Republic of Vietnam, 31 January - 4 February 1968

Entered service at: San Antonio, Texas

Born: 23 May 1946, Edinburg Texas

Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as platoon commander, 3rd Platoon, Company A.

On 31 January 1968, during the initial phase of Operation Hue City, Sgt. Gonzalez' unit was formed as a reaction force and deployed to Hue to relieve the pressure on the beleaguered city. While moving by truck convoy along Route No. 1, near the village of Lang Van Lrong, the marines received a heavy volume of enemy fire. Sgt. Gonzalez aggressively maneuvered the marines in his platoon, and directed their fire until the area was cleared of snipers.

Immediately after crossing a river south of Hue, the column was again hit by intense enemy fire. One of the marines on top of a tank was wounded and fell to the ground in an exposed position. With complete disregard for his safety, Sgt. Gonzalez ran through the fire swept area to the assistance of his injured comrade. He lifted him up and though receiving fragmentation wounds during the rescue, he carried the wounded marine to a covered position for treatment.

Due to the increased volume and accuracy of enemy fire from a fortified machine gun bunker on the side of the road, the company was temporarily halted. Realizing the gravity of the situation, Sgt. Gonzalez exposed himself to the enemy fire and moved his platoon along the east side of a bordering rice paddy to a dike directly across from the bunker. Though fully aware of the danger involved, he moved to the fire-swept road and destroyed the hostile position with hand grenades.

Although seriously wounded again on 3 February, he steadfastly refused medical treatment and continued to supervise his men and lead the attack. On 4 February, the enemy had again pinned the company down, inflicting heavy casualties with automatic weapons and rocket fire. Sgt. Gonzalez, utilizing a number of light antitank assault weapons, fearlessly moved from position to position firing numerous rounds at the heavily fortified enemy emplacements.

He successfully knocked out a rocket position and suppressed much of the enemy fire before falling mortally wounded. The heroism, courage, and dynamic leadership displayed by Sgt. Gonzalez reflected great credit upon himself and the Marine Corps, and were in keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Naval service.

He gallantly gave his life for his country.

Did Cronkite ever tell us this story?

5 posted on 02/25/2008 12:14:10 PM PST by Thebaddog (Dog breath? I don't think so.)
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To: Ditto

No, thank you for posting it back in April 2000.


6 posted on 02/25/2008 12:14:59 PM PST by ASA Vet
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To: Thebaddog

“Did Cronkite ever tell us this story?”

I don’t know.

But what I do know is that the Viet Nam war was lost in America not in Viet Nam. And thanks to See B.S. & Walter Cronkite, Americans were fed the Commie propaganda line that “we can’t win the war” even though we NEVER lost a major battle in the Viet Nam war and we handed the V.C. & N.V.A their asses in the Tet Offensive.

All paid some, some paid all.

Semper Fi,
Kelly


7 posted on 02/25/2008 12:33:37 PM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: vietvet67; freema; kellynla

Truer words have not been printed. The New York Post get it!


8 posted on 02/25/2008 3:12:18 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: vietvet67

As a veteran of the Vietnam War from August of 1969 to January of 1971, serving as an infantry squad leader in a mechanized infantry company, and with another unit as a tank commander on an M48A3 tank; I am keenly interested in the distortions, lies, and half truths perpetuated about the Vietnam war by many of those who helped to undermine the US effort there. Much of the conventional understanding of the US involvement in the South East Asian conflict indicates a general disapproval of the United States war effort, and an acceptance of the oft regurgitated leftist conventional wisdom as to it’s historical course and outcome. That is painting the American war effort in Vietnam as misguided at best and an imperialistic effort to establish SE Asian capitalistic hegemony at worst. The antiwar left is portrayed as being noble and idealistic rather than populated by a hard core that actively hoped and worked for a US defeat, the US government as destructive of basic civil liberties in its attempt to monitor their activities, and the North Vietnamese and Vietcong as nationalists who wished to preserve their unique culture against an imperialistic onslaught. The South Vietnamese government’s struggle to survive a ruthless Communist assault while engaging in an unwarranted assault on human rights as the media largely ignored the numerous genocidal atrocities of the Vietcong (VC) and North Vietnamese Army (NVA) is also part of this narrative. The deceptive reporting of the Tet Offensive, the Communist’s worse defeat among numberless hundreds of others was probably the most grievous deceit perpetuated by the Press .

The reason that the United States opposed nationwide elections that were to be held in accordance with the 1954 Geneva accords was due to the murder and intimidation campaigns carried out by Ho Chi Minh. This fact is in Professor R. J. Runnel’s book Death by Government, in which he cites a low estimate of 15,000 and a high figure of 500,000 people in the “murder by quota” campaign directed by the North Vietnamese Communist Party Politburo that would have made the election a corrupt mockery. This campaign stipulated that 5% of the people living in each village and hamlet had to be liquidated, preferably those identified as members of the “ruling class.” All told says Runnel, between 1953 and 1956 it is likely that the Communists killed 195,000 to 865,000 North Vietnamese. These were non combatant men, women, and children, and hardly represent evidence of the moral high ground claimed by many in the antiwar movement. In 1956, high Communist official Nguyen Manh Tuong admitted that “while destroying the landowning class, we condemned numberless old people and children to a horrible death.” The same genocidal pattern became the Communists’ standard operating procedure in the South too. This was unequivocally demonstrated by the Hue Massacre, which the press did a great deal to downplay in its reporting of the Tet Offensive of 1968.

The National Liberation Front was the creation of the North Vietnamese Third Party Congress of September 1960, completely directed from North Vietnam. The Tet Offensive of 1968 was a disastrous military defeat for the North Vietnamese and that the VC were almost wiped out by the fighting, and that it took the NVA until 1971 to reestablish a presence using North Vietnamese troops as local guerrillas. The North Vietnam military senior commanders repeatedly said that they counted on the U.S. antiwar movement to give them the confidence to persevere in the face of their staggering battlefield personnel losses and defeats. The antiwar movement prevented the feckless President Lyndon Johnson from granting General Westmoreland’s request to enter Laos and cut the Ho Chi Minh Trail or end his policies of publicly announced gradualist escalation. The North Vietnamese knew cutting this trail would severely damage their ability to prosecute the war. Since the North Vietnamese could continue to use the Ho Chi Minh Trail lifeline, the war was needlessly prolonged for the U.S. and contributed significantly to the collapse of South Vietnam. The casualties sustained by the NVA and VC were horrendous, (1.5 million dead) and accorded well with Gen. Ngyuen Giap’s publicly professed disdain for the lives of individuals sacrificed for the greater cause of Communist victory. They were as thoroughly beaten as a military force can be given the absence of an invasion and occupation of their nation. The Soviets and Chinese recognized this, and they put pressure on their North Vietnamese allies to accept this reality and settle up at the Paris peace talks. Hanoi’s party newspaper Nhan Dan angrily denounced the Chinese and Soviets for “throwing a life bouy to a drowning pirate” and for being “mired on the dark and muddy road of unprincipled compromise.” The North Viets intransigent attitude toward negotiation was reversed after their air defenses were badly shattered in the wake of the devastating B-52 Linebacker II assault on North Vietnam, after which they were totally defenseless against American air attack.

To this day the anti-war movement as a whole refuses to acknowledge its part in the deaths of millions in Laos and Cambodia and in the subsequent exodus from South East Asia as people fled Communism, nor the imprisonment of thousands in Communist re-education camps and gulags.

South Vietnam was NOT defeated by a local popular insurgency. The final victorious North Vietnamese offensive was a multidivisional, combined arms effort lavishly equipped with Soviet and Chinese supplied tanks, self-propelled artillery, and aircraft. It was the type of blitzkrieg that Panzer General Heinz Guederian would have easily recognized. I didn’t recall seeing any barefoot, pajama-clad guerrillas jumping out of those tanks in the newsreel footage that showed them crashing through the gates of the presidential palace in Saigon. This spectacle was prompted by the pusillanimous withdrawal of Congressional support for the South Vietnamese government in the wake of the Watergate scandal, which particularly undermined this aspect of President Nixon’s foreign policy. It should be noted that a similar Communist offensive in the spring of 1972 was smashed, largely by US air power; with relatively few US ground troops in place. At the Paris Accords in 1973, the Soviet Union had agreed to reduce aid in offensive arms to North Vietnam in exchange for trade concessions from the US, effectively ending North Vietnams hopes for a military victory in the south. With the return of cold war hostilities in the wake of the Yom Kippur war after Congress revoked the Soviet’s MFN trading status, the Reds poured money and offensive military equipment into North Vietnam. South Vietnam would still be a viable nation today were it not for this nation’s refusal to live up to it’s treaty obligations to the South Vietnamese, most important to reintervene should they invade South Vietnam.

There is one primary similarity to Vietnam. A seditious near traitorous core of anti-war protesters is trying to undermine U.S. efforts there with half-truths, lies, and distortions. In that respect, the war in Iraq and the war in Vietnam are very similar. A significant difference is that thus far the current anti-war movement has not succeeded in manifesting contempt for the American military on the part of the general U.S. public as it did in the Vietnam era.

When I was in Vietnam, I recall many discussions with my fellow soldiers about the course of the war in Vietnam and their feelings about it. Many, if not most felt that “We Gotta Get Outta this Place,” to cite a popular song of the time by Eric Burden and the Animals, but for the most part they felt we should do it by fighting the war in a manner calculated to win it. I do not recall anyone ever saying that they felt the North Vietnamese could possibly defeat us on the battlefield, but to a man they were mystified by the U.S. Government’s refusal to fight in a manner that would assure military victory. Even though there was much resentment for the antiwar movement, and some (resentment) toward career professional soldiers, I never saw anyone who did not do his basic duty and many did FAR MORE THAN THAT as a soldier. Nineteen of my friends have their names on the Vietnam War Memorial Wall in Washington DC. They deserve to have the full truth told about the effort for which they gave their young lives. The U.S. public is not well served by half-truths and lies by omission about such a significant period in our history, particularly with their relevance toward our present fight in Iraq and Afghanistan.


9 posted on 02/25/2008 6:08:13 PM PST by DMZFrank
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To: SandRat; kellynla; 1stbn27; 2111USMC; 2nd Bn, 11th Mar; 68 grunt; A.A. Cunningham; ASOC; ...
Truer words have not been printed. The New York Post get it!
Cronkite: His misreporting cost lives.

10 posted on 02/25/2008 6:15:17 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Niece, Daughter, Wife, Friend, Sister, Cousin, Mom and FRiend)
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To: vietvet67

The combined number of North Vietnamese Army troops and Viet Cong forces in Hue was 12,000.


11 posted on 02/25/2008 6:48:13 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee ("A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.")
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To: freema; RedRover; jazusamo; xzins; Girlene; RaceBannon; darrylsharratt; Shelayne; Lancey Howard; ...
From the story: And they are more than willing to use our enemies propaganda to prosecute our Marines and Soldiers in doing what they have been trained to do -- Fight to WIN in Handania, Haditha, Iskandariyah, and countless others.
12 posted on 02/25/2008 7:12:04 PM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: freema

Some things never change, and the old media never will.

“What we still don’t understand is why you Americans stopped the bombing of Hanoi. You had us on the ropes. If you had pressed us a little harder, just for another day or two, we were ready to surrender! It was the same at the battles of TET. You defeated us! We knew it, and we thought you knew it. But we were elated to notice your media were definitely helping us. They were causing more disruption in America than we could in the battlefields. We were ready to surrender. You had won!”- General Giap, North Vietnam (memoirs)


13 posted on 02/25/2008 7:24:21 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: freema

Cronkite not only betrayed our military, he betrayed our country. He’s a genuine POS.


14 posted on 02/25/2008 7:30:40 PM PST by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: DMZFrank; ALOHA RONNIE; Doctor Raoul; kristinn; tgslTakoma; StarCMC; Cannoneer No. 4; ...
To this day the anti-war movement as a whole refuses to acknowledge its part in the deaths of millions in Laos and Cambodia and in the subsequent exodus from South East Asia as people fled Communism, nor the imprisonment of thousands in Communist re-education camps and gulags.

Thank you for posting this, Frank.

15 posted on 02/25/2008 7:36:29 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Niece, Daughter, Wife, Friend, Sister, Cousin, Mom and FRiend)
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To: brityank

Thanks for the ping, Brit.

I spit on Walter Cronkite. **ppttooey**


16 posted on 02/25/2008 7:46:59 PM PST by Shelayne
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To: kellynla; freema
"All paid some, some paid all.

Semper Fi,
Kelly"

It bears repeating... As for Crankcase. The yellow bellied son of a bitch... well, we know how it was.
17 posted on 02/25/2008 8:58:48 PM PST by Marine_Uncle (Duncan Hunter was our best choice...)
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To: brityank

Lots of media folks that would look strangely at you if you mentioned the word honor.


18 posted on 02/25/2008 9:04:14 PM PST by Marine_Uncle (Duncan Hunter was our best choice...)
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To: All; freema; vietvet67

.

NEVER FORGET

.

After a post-WATERGATE Democrat Congress cut off all our funding for the then Free South Vietnamese people to fight for their own Freedom with, came a most horrid:

.

..”JOURNEY from the FALL”..

http://www.JourneyfromtheFall.com

..”JOURNEY from the FALL”.. MoviePremieres = Fall of Saigon CLARITY..

http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1806248/posts

Pictures of a vietnamese Re-Education (SLAVE LABOR) Camp

http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1308949/posts

.

Never Again.

.

NEVER FORGET

.


19 posted on 02/25/2008 10:53:45 PM PST by ALOHA RONNIE ("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com)
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To: vietvet67

Cronkite: a lying liberal scumbag. While his wife was still alive he once remarked that he might have married a man. In other words: “Honey I was always a switch hitter but I needed you for cover.


20 posted on 02/26/2008 10:08:09 AM PST by jmaroneps37 (Conservatives live in the truth. Liberals live in lies.)
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