Honolulu PD, NRA Square Off On Rifle Debate

KITV-4 (Hawaii) ^ | 2/22/08 | n/a

[kiriath_jearim]

A battle is brewing between the Honolulu Police Department and the Hawaii Rifle Association over a proposed ban of a high-powered sniper rifle.

KITV's Catherine Cruz reported that the 50-caliber rifle is dubbed the most powerful rifle on the market today, and the HPD said it is their worst nightmare. That is why they said they want it out of civilian hands.

It's a weapon that's long been used by the military and law enforcement, but in most states, a person can buy it over the Internet or from a gun store, which is making law enforcement uneasy.

"There is nothing we have that can withstand this. If you look at an armored car, those things have a half-inch of steel. These can go through 1 inch of steel at a thousand yards," HPD Major Gregory Lefcourt said.

The rifle can fire 10 rounds in 10 seconds, and the bullets can travel for miles, police officials said.

They said that a shot fired from the rooftop at police headquarters could precisely hit a target at the state Capitol, four-tenths of a mile away.

The National Guard calls the weapon a threat to homeland security.

"It does concern us -- shooting down airplanes four miles distances," Hawaii National Guard Gen.Gary Ishikawa said.

The National Rifle Association said that a ban would infringe on the right to bear arms. It argued that the weapon hasn't ever been used in a crime in the islands.

"We haven't had any incidents of robbers at banks or terrorist shooting airplanes -- it just doesn't happen," HRA member Mark Plischke said.

But police said they don't want to wait until then.

They said the proposed ban will die in the judiciary committee if they don't get enough public support for the bill.

The rifles are outlawed for civilian use in California, New Jersey and New York.

The HRA maintained that their members use it for hunting or eradicating goats. Others users of the rifle said they enter long range firing competitions

The rifle is so powerful that it has been banned from the Kokohead Firing Range, range officials said. The rifle is only allowed at military ranges, which are off limits to civilians.

It is also very expensive. One rifle will fetch about $8,000, officials said.

There are 125 registered owners of the high-powered rifle in the state, with 90 owners living on Oahu.

[Little Ray]

That I agree with whole-heartedly...

[SoldierDad]

Any law abiding citizen of the United States of America should be able to own firearms (provided they do not have any convictions for a violent crime). My original comment was poorly thought out.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Works for me, take care.

[Dead Corpse]

I will protect and defend - this country - from enemies both foriegn and domestic.

Try and take my lawfully owned firearms from me after some sensationalistic nonsense gets illegally voted into law, and I will defend myself from YOU.

I understand the knee-jerk fear those not familiar with certain classes of weapons have. I know how far the issue has been politicized and how much misinformation is out there.

Don't fall for any of it. The ONLY reason legislators want to ban any classification of arms is because it gives them more power and control over us.

There is no other legitimate reason. I don't care how scary a weapon is, how "dangerous" it is portrayed as being, or what imagined danger they tell you the public will be in. It's all lies and demonstrably so.

Push for more penalties for those who commit actual crimes with them. A priori restraint on mere possession violates the Constitution and the very reasoning used by the Founders to write the Second Amendment. Those reasons are every bit as valid today as they were back when the King's men were given the order to raid the public armory in Boston.

Human nature does not change that much over time. The veneer of civil society is VERY thin and we should all take our personal security seriously.

Should our government continue going off the rails, would you rather be standing there with your pump shot gun or black powder muzzle loader? Or would you want the best and most powerful weapons your money can buy?

Call it paranoia if you dare, but that only would betray an ignorance of current events and the observable reality that our Federal government is already operating well beyond it's Constitutional limits. It's a very short step from ignoring limits to loading people onto box cars.

[Harvey105]

Are you referring to the Hawaii to US mainland flight?

I think that was in 1989 or 1988. There was a 20 foot hole ripped out of the fuselage and the plane turned back to the Islands and flew for about an hour before landing without further incident.

The TV show MythBusters just did a show on this myth and found it to be without merit.

[Manly Warrior]

You are correct, but there are probaly less than 10 multi-50s/miniguns or anyting simliar in the whole US (in the hands of civilians, so they will NOT be available/effective for anything. It will boil down to a man protecting his country with a small arm, with occasional overwatch from a larger caliber small arm, maybe some commandeered equipment/loyal troops from Guard or Reserve units.

God Bless

MOLON LABE

[from occupied ga]

probaly less than 10 multi-50s/miniguns or anyting simliar in the whole US

You'd be surprised.

[SoldierDad]

Try and take my lawfully owned firearms from me after some sensationalistic nonsense gets illegally voted into law, and I will defend myself from YOU.

You do not need to worry me with respect to your rights. I have acknowledged that my original comment was poorly thought out, and do advocate firearm ownership by any law abiding citizen. If push were to come to shove, I would gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with you to defend that right - with my life if need be.

[GunRunner]

"I would be in support of this weapon not being available for civilian purchase."

"...not meant to be taken as a desire to ban any firearm from civilian ownership"

I guess it depends on what the meaning of the word "available" is.

To me, wishing something was "not available" means "ban it" to most people.

If you see this as backing away from my original comment, then, I guess it is. I’m capable of admitting my original post was not as well thought out as I could have made it.

Well, at least you're honest.

[Uri’el-2012]

XS>“The socialist believe you can buy a gun on the internet.

You are repeating their propaganda.

You still need to visit an FFL and get a background check”

I’ll S A Y IT A G A I N F O R Y O U R E A L S L O W..

You don't get the Gun into your hands until you
fill out the 4473 and the FFL contacts the NICS center.
When you are cleared, you get to complete the transaction
and finish the purchase.

There I said it real slow for you.

I am the club secretary for an NRA club and we have an FFL.

And yesterday we ran a gun show for a five counties area.

if you have any questions see

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/index.htm#geninfo

[SoldierDad]

I’m also able to admit when I’m wrong on an issue.

[A Strict Constructionist]

Sorry about the ping.

I am an absolutist on the BOR.

I am also a fan of the 10th. Mountain my Dad was in 10th. during WWII until he was shipped to the Pacific. My family has alos been here since before the Revolution and has fought in most of it’s wars.

[ChromeDome]

Yes, that’s the one. I thought it occurred longer ago (memory fades).

[Dead Corpse]

In that case, my apologies as well. I guess I’ve been so used to dealing with blatant trolls that I jumped on you first without trying to see if I could change your mind some other way.

[dljordan]

“Other than the pure excitement of shooting such a weapon, does this gun have any legitimate purpose for civilian use? I would be in support of this weapon not being available for civilian purchase.”

You’re right, the 2A IS about the right to hunt ducks after all. We wouldn’t want to scare the Fudds now would we? :)

[PeterFinn]

How many felony crimes have ever been committed with a .50 in the USA?

The short answer is none.

[PeterFinn]

Not only that, a .50 even hitting a flying aircraft at four miles would be like hitting a hole in one at 500 yards while the hole was on a flatbed truck doing 65mph. Not even Tiger can do that.

[SoldierDad]

Help me out here. BOR? Not familiar with that acronym.

I became a fan of the 10th after watching the movie Blackhawk Down - not because of what happended to those killed, but because of how the soldiers handled themselves under such conditions. Those who sent the men of the 10th, and the troops from other units into that hell without proper support should have been held accountable (Clintoon comes to mind).

I’m proud to call you fellow American. Just so there’s no confusion, I will stand with you in defense of the right to bear arms, even to the death. My original post should be stricken.

[ozzymandus]

Doesn’t pay to advocate gun control on FR, does it? I hope you learned something about attacking people’s rights.

[SoldierDad]

Apology accepted. I should really have thought through my comment before I posted it, and considered what my words meant. But, I’m not perfect. I just reacted without thinking.