Posted on 02/16/2008 1:49:07 PM PST by Witch-king of Angmar
I just got back from the annual Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Washington, D.C., where conservatives began lining up behind a man who’s been sticking it to us for years. By a process of self-hypnosis, many have managed to convince themselves that McCain is actually one of us.
Not for nothing did Benjamin Disraeli call conservatives the stupid party.
What part of John McCain do we not get? McCain-Kennedy, McCain-Feingold, McCain-Lieberman, McCain-Edwards -- among other socialist, anti-speech, open-borders, enviro-Marxist measures he’s co-sponsored with the hardcore left of the Democratic Party over the years.
If Il Duce had served with him in the United States Senate, there would be McCain-Mussolini.
(Excerpt) Read more at donfeder.com ...
You are exactly correct, and my point exactly. Does the future of this country bode us well by installing someone even less conservative, and in fact socialist/marxist or in Obama's case a possible probable muslim sleeper?
If you are trying to make the Republican Party more conservative by your actions/inaction you may as well try to make the Democratic Party more conservative. The only way the Republican Party will become more conservative is for conservatives to get active in it's decision making from the inside. But good luck even on that endeavor. Pat Robertson and the Christian Coalition tried to do just that and even with all their resources they were unsuccessful.
Why was that you may ask? The answer is simple, the Republican Party is comprised of moderates to hardline conservatives (I catagorize myself as somewhere between conservative and hardline conservative), with the majority being moderate. A sad reality to be sure but a reality nonetheless. On the obverse, the Democratic Party is comprised of moderates to ultra liberal, with the majority being liberal.
But back to my original point, yes it is the future I am concerned about which is why if John McCain is nominated, which appears to be the case, I will vote for John McCain. For it is the future of this great nation I concern myself with, not the future of the Republican Party.
I agree with you, Robert. As much as many of us would like to have the political environment of the 1980’s, that environment is gone. Too many “new citizens”. Too many decades of leftist teachers running the schools and leftist professors running the universities. The country IS more liberal now than it was in 1980. Can anyone imagine a Ronald Reagan being elected Governor of California these days? Impossible.
We have to deal with the reality that exists, not the fantasy we all pine for. And given the current political reality, and looking at everything John McCain stands for and has stood for in his long career, and looking at what Barak Obama most certainly is, an unrepentant far-left socialist with extreme pacifist (maybe even pro-Islam pacifist) leanings, then the only thing an American PATRIOT can do (forget conservative) is vote against defeat, vote against marxism, vote against someone who would make the Islamofacists stronger and the American military weaker.
“I’m voting for McCain.
Stopping Hilda-Bama is THAT important.
Denying the democrats victory is THAT important.
They stabbed our troops in the back on the battlefield.
I will never forget that, or ever forgive.”
I loath McCain, but I agree with your sentiments. We may very well have to vote for him, but we will also need to put on a full-court press to turn the RNC on its head and shake out the existing establishment - they are not us. I will not send them one more penny until they clean up their act. They are basically just democrats of a different stripe, which is completely unacceptable. An objective observer could only conclude that the leadership of the RNC has been compromised by the DNC.
If the Republican party continues to drift libralward, what future do you see for the US?
susie
I'll agree, with a caveat. This is not a time we can afford to engage in this battle because it would mean we lose the real war we are engaged in militarily. Having either of these two democrats in the White House at this juncture would ensure that we lose this real war we are fighting. So I am not even willing to engage in this idealogical battle right now when doing so means we would end up losing the war. I am not even in the slighest bit convinced we would even win this battle, even if we did fight it at this time. I think timing is important whenever a battle is contemplated, and the timing is just not right, right now.
Let the Dems have this one.
Sorry this is too important of a crossroad in American history for me to just roll over because of the fact that we are engaged in a war. Believe me I would much much rather see someone other than McCain as the Republican nominee, but it appears right now that he will be. I liked Ron Paul in many ways, but his inability to grasp the seriousness of this war shows me that he is not fit to be Commander In Cheef at least at this point in time of American history.
Four years of Carter gave us Reagan, who’s accomplishments far outweighed Carter’s follies.
Again, agreed. But even Reagan made some serious mistakes as our President. Even Reagan was no Ronald Reagan Do you think Reagan would instruct fellow republicans to roll over and let Hillary or Obama become Commander In Cheif simply because McCain is not conservative enough, or in some eyes not conservative at all? I personally think not, because he would recognize that he is more conservative than Hillary or Obama. I think he might have fought him until he became the nominee and then he would have thrown his support to McCain.
Hillary can deliver us the same thing.
First off I do not believe any person who is a serious Presidential contender can be as inept as Carter was, so that line of reasoning is questionable at best. Carter was only elected because of Nixon. If the economy hadsn't been in shambles we may never have had a Reeagan. I'll tell you what I believe she can and will deliver is the lose of the war, and probably more attacks within our borders as a result - and like her husband, will do nothing in the way of retaliation. Furthermore, she may succeed in giving us nationalized healthcare this time, and I honestly shudder to think what other damage she might incur on this nation even in a single term. Her husband managed to give the Chinese long range missile technology making America more vulnerable now as a result. Who knows what technology she may give away to raise campaign contributions for her re-election bid.
I am still unsure of the Obama factor, but I just don’t see him taking the nomination at the end of the day.
I don't know why you don't see that, he is gaining momentum and I think if it comes down to the super delegates they will be afraid to give it to Hillary if Obama leads in the delegate count. To do so would ensure their loss in the general election because blacks will either not vote or crossover to the Republican Party, and for more than just this election
But 20 years from now, whom do you think will have done more damage to conservatism: Hillary or McCain?
Think about it.
Only conservatives are concerned about conservatism, and we are a small minority of the entire population. Therefore, only conservatives can damage conservatism because neither of these two represent conservatism in the first place. While McCain is more conservative than Hillary, or at least I believe that to be the reality, I do not see how he can hurt conservatism. Conservatism is not dictated by individuals, conservatism is a belief held by individuals. Will your conservatism be in any way shape or form be damaged? I know for myself that my conservatism will be the same regardless which if either of them, I am not counting out Obama, is President.
America deserves the government it gets.
Any way you cut it, America gets screwed in 2008.
I did what I could in the Republican primary and, am not inclined to participate in the coming travesty. So, I’ll probably write in a candidate.
As Alexander Fraser Tytler (1742-1813) so aptly stated:
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years.
These nations have progressed through this sequence:
from bondage to spiritual faith
from spiritual faith to great courage
from courage to liberty
from liberty to abundance
from abundance to selfishness
from selfishness to complacency
from complacency to apathy
from apathy to dependency
from dependency back to bondage.
While our Founding Fathers created a Republic instead of a democracy, for the very reasons stated above, the reality is we have overtime morphed into a quasi-democracy if not a full fledged democracy.
So rest assured that I am with you 100% on the urgency for America to return to it's conservative roots. however, you and I just do not have the support of the majority of Americans. If we did we wouldn't have a McCain as the Republican nominee and the Democrats wouldn't have a Clinton or Obama as their nominee and we wouldn't be engaged in these discussions. If we were not at war and the democrats were not promising to disengage us from that war I would be right there with you. We are at war though and the democrats are promising to lose the war, so that changes everything.
So while we have regressed to democracy and Alexander's timeframe is pretty accurate as well, I place America in the from apathy to dependency stage I fear that within the next 50 years, if not sooner, America will be led by a dictator. This is why the Second Amendment is probably the most imporatnt issue facing America today. We will need those guns in the future. So learn how to use weapons and stock up on them and ammo. If it comes to that in our lifetime rest assured that I will be right there with you on that one.
“Rather than do nothing about the offending diode, election of a Republican will be like installing a switch that has the effect of removes it from the circuit.”
True, but the installation of a defective component runs the risk of frying the entire circuit.
Not to worry. Your moderate candidate will ride the moderate votes all the way to The Oval Office. Clearly, he doesn't need the support of conservatives.
More ABSURD logic to vilify!
We’re conservative, socially and fiscally. McCain is NOT.
McCain is a LIBERAL.
We stand on PRINIPCLE.
McCain bends over for anyone. YOU vote for McCain. We won't be voting for anyone of the RHINO's or Demoncrats. We'll be home that night waiting for the GOP to cough up a true conservative.
susie
EXACTLY!
McCain is a LIBERAL. SO the media could cope with another LIBERAL. The STUPID PARTY was set up. The STUPID PARTY, doesn’t get it. NYT, other RHINO’S are all out in force supporting McCain. The media was not harsh with McCain. The media USED the bigot, Huckabee to slam Mitt on his Mormonism. The backslidden Baptist, Huckabee fulfilled the function for the godless LIBERALS, and I include, Mike in that to scare people away from Mitt. Mike was another WILLING useful idiot. The STUPID people fell for it.
Is THAT how you have it all sized-up?
Shame on you, old man.
...shame on YOU.
Robert,
I do appreciate your addressing my post point by point, and everything you said is true.
I realize that I sound as though I’m rolling over, but I don’t see it that way. I’m trying to be realistic about what is best for America in the long term.
Face it, the country got snookered by the MSM (that includes Fox News). They did everything necessary to ensure that either McCain or Huckabee would be the candidate, and suppressed all the other Republicans. They played Republicans for suckers, and Republicans fell for it.
As a result, Republicans are now pressured to embrace a candidate (McCain) whom they would otherwise find repugnant.
You see, this time around, either way they win. And I think they realize that a McCain win would hand them an even bigger victory in the long term. I won’t play into their hand like that.
The biggest worry is of course our troops and I do realize that. My father was a decorated WWII veteran, and even though I am only in my early 40s, I am disgusted by the behavior of the media as well as behavior of many Americans when it comes to this war, as compared to WWII.
Where is the sacrifice, the sense of unity, the paper drives, victory gardens, and most importantly, the willingness to see the enemy for what they are? Where is the willingness to depict the enemy as evil?
I understand that of all the candidates, McCain should be the obvious choice for CIC. I also see that he has turned his back on the invasion of our southern border. Believe me, I pray for our troops every day. By the way, I find the assertion that one can support the troops but not the war offensive.
So that brings me back to my original point. A McCain presidency as well as a HRC presidency will both be disasters, as they are both lousy candidates.
I’d rather see Hillary fail than McCain, as a Hillary failure could give us back congress and revitalize the party. A McCain failure on the coattails of the Bush years would be bad. Bad for America, bad for our troops, perhaps bad for western civilization. The MSM knows that, which is why we are in the situation we find ourselves.
Lastly, Obama: Perhaps I’m naive, but I just don’t see the party of Robert Byrd letting that happen. I get a huge kick out of seeing the Dem’s superdelegate “solution” from 30 years ago come back to bite them on the arse. It’s Hillary’s turn and the party hacks know it, and will ensure it. Oh the irony!! But then again who are the real racists here? Just ask J.C Watts, Colin Powell, Alan Keyes (whom I voted for in ‘96), Condi, etc.. I would gladly vote for any of them, (well, maybe not Powell). But unlike the MSM and other “open minded liberals” it isn’t about race, it’s about ideology.
Let me quatify that I cannnot stand John McCain and it will be with a very heavy heart that I pull the lever for him, mainly because like you I do not trust him. That said, I trust those of the democratic party even less.
Perhaps you would like to go back and change your vote in 2000 or 2004 so that Gore or Kerry could have been President, but who do you think would have been the Republican opponent in 2004, Bush maybe? How about 2008? McCain perhaps - just lie it is anyway? Look, no President makes all the correct choices, and Bush certainly falls under that category. So does Ronald Reagan. As much as I loveed (and I don't use that term lightly) Reagan even he made some very bad mistakes as President. But as Reagan was the better President than what the Democrats were offering so was Bush and so is McCain.
I honestly wish that this country would go back to it's conservative roots, but the stark reality is that the conservative movement we belong to is a minority one. Therefore, as conservatives the only thing we can do is try to get the most conservative or least liberal in positions of power. It sucks I know, but the alternative is to catapult this country into socialism.
By the time Louisiana's state primary had come around all of my preferred candidates, Fred Thompson and then Mitt Romney, were gone too. All of the candidatees names were still on the ballot though so I voted for Fred as my protest vote. But to answer your question it is voters in the Republican Party for the most part who select their nominee. (Thank God the Republican Party does not have Spuer Delegates like the democratic party where they can change the voters choice for nominee) There were a few states that allowed crossover votes and some allowed independents, but the vast majority were our fellow Republicans. This should be further proof to you that the Republican Party is not a conservative party but rather the more conservative party of the two major parties. Since conservatives are a minority we cannot start a viable third party either and since we take votes awat from the more conservative party of the two major parties we would be electing democrats. So there you have it, conservatives are between a rock and a hard place. Always have been and probably always will be. Pat Robertson tried in vain to get more control of the Republican Party, but even with all of his resources he was unsuccessful. That was because even with all the clout he brought to the table he still was outgunned in the Republican Party by the moderate contingency.
Bottomline is cast your vote, or not, for whomever you wish but the reality is you are casting your vote for Liberal X, the most liberal candidate in the race. If that is your true desire then do it by all means, but I will not hesitate to label it a treasonous act.
One last thought, would you have voted for Reagan in 1980 had you known that he raised taxes in California by one billion dollars in his first year of office as Governor of California?
>>Who would you like to be in the White House if Pakistan fell to al Qaeda and the Islamists gained control of its nuclear arsenal?<<
None of the above.
What do the “Anyone But Hillary” folks think McCain is going to in such a case? He’s given us precious little, if any, indication of having the ability to do the right thing in the face of Lib opposition.
I will be spending time in prayer, asking for guidance in what to do at the polls in November. I agree with your assessment, but I am not sure if it’s better to eat the bitter pill now (and hopefully only 4 year Democratic Presidency and then people will come to their senses) or to try to ward it off with even worse consequences (a totally ruined Republican party with nothing to replace it). A crystal ball would be wonderful. I do appreciate the opportunity afforded here to hash this stuff out, there ARE smarter people than I around.
:)
Thank you for your input.
Susie
I haven’t seen it, (altho it’s out there somewhere I’m sure) but what is McCain’s position on the war in Iraq/Afghanistan? I mean, what has he said he would do? How about what’s brewing in Eastern Europe? I know he wanted to close Gitmo, and I know what he thinks torture is.
The Number One reason not to vote for McCain:
Immigration – He’s not just pro-open borders, he’s Senor Amnesty – co-sponsor of McCain-Kennedy, which would have legalized 15 million illegal aliens, allowed them to bring in tens of millions of their mooching relatives (including the elderly and infirm), given them credit for past Social Security contributions, etc. The Heritage Foundation’s Robert Rector said McCain-Kennedy would have constituted the largest expansion of the welfare state in U.S. history (at an estimated cost of $2.6 trillion). A Republican who served with McNasty in the Senate said he was forever haranguing his GOP colleagues about being perceived as “xenophobes” for not supporting amnesty. At CPAC, he told conservatives he’s heard us. He’ll secure the borders first, then push amnesty – which, of course, will negate anything he does at the border. Build it (a suicidal welfare state that embraces alien intruders), and a fence won’t keep them out.
**************
Thank you Don Feder, for stating the obvious.
its what COULD happen that will destroy us if we don't act on patriotism and statesmanship...similar to Romney....
I purposely think there are Rat implants here to encourage red necks like ME not to vote....let's not fall for that crap!
Yeh, blather on all you like. You rationalize it to yourself why YOU are willing to vote for a liberal. Are you trying to convince me? Or yourself?
One more thing. My family and I have spent a large part of our adult lives serving this country. My father was a retired naval officer with command of his own ship. (His command at sea pennant sits atop my desk as I type this.) My Great Uncle enlisted in the USN on December 8, 1941. My brother (two years older then me) died before his 40th birthday as a Disabled American Veteran. I served my own time in the USN during the cold war launching fighter aircraft off of flight decks. I suggest to you, sir, that you be extremely careful before you start throwing words like treason around!
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