Posted on 02/06/2008 2:51:01 AM PST by LowCountryJoe
To hear the Lou Dobbses and Bill O'Reillys of the world--not to mention politicians ranging from Ron Paul to Hillary Clinton--the middle class of America (however you define that term) has never had it so tough. Between credit squeezes, out-of-control immigration, rising costs of education and health care and everything else, it's all darkness out there for those of us who are neither millionaires nor welfare cases, right?
In "Living Large," Drew Carey and reason.tv examine the plight of the American middle class. What do they find?
http://reason.tv/video/show/61.html
I don’t know how “seriously” we were poor in the 60’s, but we didn’t have air conditioning until the mid 70s, and that was a window unit that cooled the bottom floor of the house we lived in. My mother did do some hand washing of clothes in the 60’s, or else went to the laundrymat. We were lower middle class, or maybe upper lower class, I guess.Meh... sorry about that. Looking back at the post it was pretty snide.
There are very few poor in this country, and perhaps none, based on world-wide standards. If the measure is in comparison with the well-to-do, there will always be poor.
You saved me a post. I agree completely. (I guess you DIDN’T save me a post after all!)
Reality is two incomes have become necessary BECAUSE people want more and live high but scale back living high and believe it or not a family can live on one decent income.It depends on where you live and home costs. In New England a middle class lifestyle(a 3 bedroom home in a nice neighborhood) *requires* that a family make 100k+ a year.
It’s called “Acting your wage” and living within your means.
As the video said, “It’s not the cost of living, it’s the cost of living high.”
I grew up in the lower classes - fairly poor even by 1960’s standards and we had a washing machine and dryer - granted we didn’t move to a house with AC until 1970, in Atlanta, and sure we were hot, but we LIKED it hot!
I didn’t take any offense. We thought we were poor because most people did live much better than we did. It all turned out ok. I was able to go to college, and eventually grad school. My wife and I earn in the $150K range. Hardly wealthy, but we live below our means, have no debt, own our home, have a little put away, maybe $500K in our 401ks (as of this week, anyway), and we are happy. When you have less growing up, you learn some lessons, I think. I do worry for our kids because they have never wanted for anything. They are in for a rude awakening in about 7 years (they are 16 years old now.).
Three guys out of a hundred million. There's a valid sample.
You need to develop that thought a little further: why does being a member of the middle class entitle people to live where they want (in your case, New England)?
Not any different than rushing to a thread with the standard “what about the women and children” crap.
Uh oh. Pulled that one out of the wrong hat, huh?
Totally. Just like your crap about the “real world.”
You need to develop that thought a little further: why does being a member of the middle class entitle people to live where they want (in your case, New England)?It doesn't, but that's beside the point. New England was *my frame of reference *for the original argument. If you're middle class in New England your wages have stagnated.
Uh, oh. The bad language is starting. Cleaned the spit off your screen yet?
Re: As the video said, “It’s not the cost of living, it’s the cost of living high.”
Simple slogans will not counter the fact that wages for the VAST MAJORITY of the country have been rising at an anemic rate, which costs such as college tuition and healthcare rise at double digit clips for many years. Under this equation, there is simply no way for many people to keep up outside of debt. And then people who are in debt are railed here on FR, where I think some people live in an alternate universe, defending people who get Golden Parachutes for mediocre and even poor performance while at the helm of companies.
In short, many here are in denial of the financial realites on the ground with most Americans.
You know what’s funny? You complain about Carey’s alleged misrepresentation, when he’s making fun of the representation you favor (I’m guessing you didn’t watch the video, either).
Incomes have stagnated in New England because housing costs have escalated. Got it.
Huh? What the heck's that supposed to mean? Really.
Actually I did watch the whole thing.
You are complaining that Carey’s version does not represent the “real world,” yet in the video he has countless talking heads presenting the “real world” as they (and you) see it. He’s making fun of it.
“It depends on where you live and home costs. In New England a middle class lifestyle(a 3 bedroom home in a nice neighborhood) *requires* that a family make 100k+ a year.”
Nonsense! Most people in the past were not raised in 3-bedroom homes in “nice neighborhood” (translate expensive and upscale, and probably brand new). You can raise a fine family in a small home in a shabby neighborhood on the national average family income of $35,000-$40,000.
Heck, my whole comfortable life has been lived with never even living NEAR anyone with a $100,000 income nor will I ever see that yet I have all I want and more than enough things, not to mention a fabulous hubby.
In 1970, only 34% of new homes offered air conditioning. By 1990, it was 76%. In 1970, the average size of a new home was 1,500 sq. ft. By 1990, that had increased to 2,080. In 1970, only 34% of households owned a color TV. By 1990, it was 96%. In 1970, 29% of households owned two or more cars. By 1990, it was 54%. In 1970, the real median household net worth was $24,217. By 1990 it had increased to $48,887. In 1970, Americans owned 8.8 million recreational boats. By 1990, that number had doubled.
In 1970, only 52% of Americans finished high school. By 1990, that percentage was up to 78%. In 1970, 13.5% of Americans finished four years of college. By 1990 that was up to 25%. The list goes on and unless you have something that proves this trend has become worse since 1990, you're going to have a hard time showing the middle class hasn't been doing better since the good old days of the sixties when only one family member worked but we had all the comforts, conveniences and toys we enjoy today. Good luck with that.
Wages have done fine and cost of living is not high. Costs for all sorts of extras like I-Pods, laptops etc. are high because they are NOT NECESSARY. I don’t have them. And college tuition can be earned by the student, which is better for them, or scholarships can be earned or grants taken advantage of (I used them) and student loans although they are not so good (and I have those yet to pay off).
Healthcare whines I don’t want to hear. I did without it for over a decade, just told the dr I didn’t have it and got free meds occasionally and used college dental services. I survived fine and now have an HSA which is enlightening and requires use of the noggin since you have to know what your dr is charging.
“And then people who are in debt are railed here on FR, where I think some people live in an alternate universe...”
Hubby and I just worked like crazy the last two years to get all our debt paid off (about 25K) and just have my student loan left (same amount) and we aren’t moaning and groaning. We did it on under 50K income and by selling our house and getting on a budget.
People are addicted to whining and aided in that by the media - action would help but it does take personal iniative.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.