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Living Large [Drew Carey on America's Middle Class]
Reason.TV ^ | unknown | Narrated by Drew Carey

Posted on 02/06/2008 2:51:01 AM PST by LowCountryJoe

To hear the Lou Dobbses and Bill O'Reillys of the world--not to mention politicians ranging from Ron Paul to Hillary Clinton--the middle class of America (however you define that term) has never had it so tough. Between credit squeezes, out-of-control immigration, rising costs of education and health care and everything else, it's all darkness out there for those of us who are neither millionaires nor welfare cases, right?

In "Living Large," Drew Carey and reason.tv examine the plight of the American middle class. What do they find?

http://reason.tv/video/show/61.html


TOPICS: Breaking News; Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: drewcarey; middleclass; reasontv
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To: NCLaw441

Tell me some of the great jobs that came about from doing business with China? Capitalist believe in competition unless it is competing for labor. How do wages improve when the government lets them bring in people from overseas every time the labor market gets tight. The idea is to get educated so you have skills that others don’t so your wages go up. You pay for college, but the college you go to gives scholarships to people from other countries and then use them to keep your wages down.


121 posted on 02/06/2008 10:49:55 AM PST by calvo (Your strength isn't what you can do, but what you can endure.)
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To: calvo
It was not uncommon for a man with a high school education to have a house, a wife that didn’t work, three kids or more, to live simple but well.

When? What did the man do for work?

122 posted on 02/06/2008 11:04:13 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Why are protectionists so bad at math?)
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To: visualops

“So the presumption is you had a figure in mind when saying a family doesn’t need 2 incomes. Duh it depends on how big the family but surely you could just pick something. I’ll help you; let’s say a middle aged couple whose last kid has just moved out, and a couple in their 30’s with 2 kids. As for where they are living, just an average, we aren’t talking big city or expensive suburb.”

It still depends on WHERE they are living and their past history of handling their money (suppose they just finished a bankruptcy).

But going by Indiana (where I live) and not a big city or expensive suburb I’d say a middle aged couple could get by on the national average $35,000-40,000. BUT - only if they budget and live simply. One person’s simple is another’s extravagant. It all depends on so many factors which is why you can’t really generalize which is what the media does. Or worse, they take some bad example and call it the norm and say it indicates a trend.

But as someone else said - that two people with degrees can barely make it, please.... It all comes down to individuals. One can argue this till doomsday.


123 posted on 02/06/2008 11:08:08 AM PST by marychesnutfan
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To: Toddsterpatriot

I lived in Iowa in the late 60’s early 70’s. The meat packing plants were all union jobs paying about $7 an hour or more. Most of them had there own homes, cars, campers, pensions, and health insurance. New Chevy Impala cost me $2,700 and you could buy hamburger 3lbs. for a dollar on sale.


124 posted on 02/06/2008 11:23:50 AM PST by calvo (Your strength isn't what you can do, but what you can endure.)
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To: ketsu

In the mid-sixties my father (sole earner) made about fifteen thousand a year as a salesman. We noticed a definite increase in our standard of living from the fifties. However we had just one car (Chevy), one tv, we didn’t go on vacations, and my parents weren’t frivolous to say the least. And we thought we had it good for that time.Our neighbors lived more or less like we did. Nobody rich, nobody real poor.


125 posted on 02/06/2008 11:34:12 AM PST by driftless2
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To: Toddsterpatriot
When? What did the man do for work?
50's and 60's. Manufacturing jobs. The "rust belt" used to be full of them. Look to Gary Indiana or Detroit if you want to see what's left.
126 posted on 02/06/2008 11:40:22 AM PST by ketsu
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To: driftless2
In the mid-sixties my father (sole earner) made about fifteen thousand a year as a salesman. We noticed a definite increase in our standard of living from the fifties. However we had just one car (Chevy), one tv, we didn’t go on vacations, and my parents weren’t frivolous to say the least. And we thought we had it good for that time.Our neighbors lived more or less like we did. Nobody rich, nobody real poor.
Yup. That's one of the reasons I liked living in Japan(although Japan is beginning to become like the US now too). Nobody was rich or extravagant but every body had enough to be comfortable. And this was in the height of the deflationary spiral.
127 posted on 02/06/2008 11:43:17 AM PST by ketsu
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To: ketsu
50's and 60's. Manufacturing jobs.

What % of workers had manufacturing jobs in the 50s and 60s?

128 posted on 02/06/2008 11:44:30 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Why are protectionists so bad at math?)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
What % of workers had manufacturing jobs in the 50s and 60s?
I don't have the numbers offhand, but I can tell you that 39% of all private sector employees were unionized in 1958 so that should give you a general idea of the percentages.
129 posted on 02/06/2008 12:12:50 PM PST by ketsu
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To: calvo

You posted, in part: Capitalist believe in competition unless it is competing for labor.
***
Capitalists believe in getting the best deal on everything they can, and charging the highest price they can get away with for their products. It is all about profit. Capitalism IS about competition. Those who cannot compete, either by price (including the price for labor) or by providing a better product (including work skills that are hard for an employer to find), lose out to those who can. Most of us buy those products made in China, as long as they are of a level of quality that compares with the cost. Sometimes we buy “cheap” goods of low quality and other times we want high quality and are willing to pay a premium.

There are lots of jobs in the US that involve assembling parts or using things made in China to create other things.

One reason why so many jobs have left the US is because of governmental regulation, and to an extent, greedy unions who have driven labor prices artificially high. No company would seek to get its labor elsewhere if it could get just as good workers at the same, or nearly the same, cost here.


130 posted on 02/06/2008 12:14:34 PM PST by NCLaw441
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To: ketsu; Mase; 1rudeboy; Fan of Fiat
Skip Navigation Links   Latest Numbers
DOL Seal - Link to DOL Home Page
Photos representing the workforce - Digital Imageryý copyright 2001 PhotoDisc, Inc.
 www.bls.gov  Advanced Search | A-Z Index
Change Output Options: From:   To:     
include graphs NEW!
Data extracted on: February 6, 2008 (3:20:04 PM)
Employment, Hours, and Earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National)

Series Id:     CES0000000001
Seasonally Adjusted
Super Sector:  Total nonfarm
Industry:      Total nonfarm
NAICS Code:    N/A
Data Type:     ALL EMPLOYEES, THOUSANDS
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
1950 43530 43298 43952 44376 44717 45084 45453 46187 46442 46712 46778 46855  
1951 47289 47577 47871 47856 47952 48067 48061 48008 47955 48009 48149 48308  
1952 48299 48522 48504 48616 48645 48286 48144 48922 49319 49598 49816 50164  
1953 50145 50339 50474 50432 50491 50522 50536 50487 50365 50242 49906 49702  
1954 49467 49381 49158 49177 48965 48896 48834 48825 48881 48944 49179 49331  
1955 49497 49644 49963 50246 50512 50790 50985 51112 51262 51431 51592 51805  
1956 51975 52167 52295 52375 52506 52583 51954 52632 52600 52781 52822 52930  
1957 52888 53098 53156 53238 53149 53066 53122 53128 52932 52765 52557 52385  
1958 52077 51576 51300 51026 50913 50912 51037 51233 51506 51485 51943 52088  
1959 52481 52687 53016 53320 53549 53678 53803 53337 53428 53359 53635 54175  
1960 54274 54513 54458 54812 54472 54347 54303 54272 54228 54144 53962 53743  



Series Id:     CES3000000001
Seasonally Adjusted
Super Sector:  Manufacturing
Industry:      Manufacturing
NAICS Code:    N/A
Data Type:     ALL EMPLOYEES, THOUSANDS
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
1950 13161 13169 13290 13471 13780 13923 14072 14461 14561 14737 14762 14782  
1951 14950 15076 15125 15166 15164 15176 15110 15061 14996 14973 14999 15045  
1952 15067 15105 15127 15162 15143 14828 14707 15279 15553 15690 15843 15973  
1953 16067 16158 16270 16293 16341 16343 16353 16278 16151 15981 15728 15581  
1954 15440 15307 15197 15065 14974 14910 14799 14772 14805 14841 14913 14967  
1955 15034 15138 15258 15375 15493 15585 15614 15679 15668 15740 15813 15859  
1956 15882 15889 15829 15909 15893 15835 15468 15893 15863 15937 15916 15957  
1957 15970 15998 15994 15970 15931 15873 15854 15867 15710 15599 15466 15332  
1958 15130 14908 14670 14506 14414 14408 14450 14524 14658 14503 14827 14877  
1959 14998 15115 15259 15385 15487 15554 15623 15202 15254 15158 15300 15573  
1960 15687 15765 15707 15654 15575 15466 15413 15360 15330 15231 15112 14947  

 

U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
Postal Square Building
2 Massachusetts Ave., NE
Washington, DC 20212-0001

Phone: (202) 691-5200
Do you have a Data question?
Do you have a Technical (web) question?
Do you have Other comments?

In January, 1958, we had 52,077,000 workers, 15,130,000 in manufacturing. I guess only 29% of families could live the manufacturing dream.

131 posted on 02/06/2008 12:23:09 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Why are protectionists so bad at math?)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
In January, 1958, we had 52,077,000 workers, 15,130,000 in manufacturing. I guess only 29% of families could live the manufacturing dream.
30% is a heck of a lot. I don't think you really get it. 30% of the working population most of whom *didn't go to higher education* had a very high standard of living. Which is what we were talking about and you seem to have forgotten.
132 posted on 02/06/2008 12:43:53 PM PST by ketsu
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To: raybbr; 1rudeboy
Why didn't they go to a Goodwill store and interview the people there?

That's funny. My neighbour's husband earns over $100K, and she shops at goodwill and the sally ann, because she likes to.

133 posted on 02/06/2008 12:53:31 PM PST by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: Toddsterpatriot; calvo
It was not uncommon for a man with a high school education to have a house, a wife that didn’t work, three kids or more, to live simple but well.

"When? What did the man do for work?"

Well, my Dad, with a grade 8 education, drove a truck for Coca-cola, moved up with promotions, and then sold real estate, and then opened a business.

It worked just fine for him, and our family.

134 posted on 02/06/2008 1:09:52 PM PST by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: ketsu
30% is a heck of a lot.

Sure is.

I don't think you really get it.

I get it perfectly.

Even 13 years after the end of WWII, when most of the manufacturing in the rest of the world hadn't been rebuilt, we only had 30% of our workforce in manufacturing.

135 posted on 02/06/2008 1:10:44 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Why are protectionists so bad at math?)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
Even 13 years after the end of WWII, when most of the manufacturing in the rest of the world hadn't been rebuilt, we only had 30% of our workforce in manufacturing.
Which is a complete non-sequitur to the discussion. Take your ritalin and read the thread again.
136 posted on 02/06/2008 1:16:59 PM PST by ketsu
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To: scripter

Check later


137 posted on 02/06/2008 1:21:01 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: ketsu

Listening to most protectionists, I thought a much larger % of our workers were able to drop out of high school, get manufacturing jobs and instantly buy a house, new car and support a wife and 3 kids. Now I find that only 29% of our workers were in manufacturing in 1958. Not as high as I thought, considering the anecdotes I see thrown around here.


138 posted on 02/06/2008 1:22:10 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Why are protectionists so bad at math?)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
Listening to most protectionists, I thought a much larger % of our workers were able to drop out of high school, get manufacturing jobs and instantly buy a house, new car and support a wife and 3 kids. Now I find that only 29% of our workers were in manufacturing in 1958. Not as high as I thought, considering the anecdotes I see thrown around here.
You still don't get it. Start putting the numbers together. 15% of so of employees had 4+ year post secondary degrees. So now we're at 45% of the population. That still leaves the tradesmen, the mechanics and other high paying service jobs.
139 posted on 02/06/2008 1:29:34 PM PST by ketsu
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To: ketsu
Keep adding numbers and pretty soon you'll get up to 100%.

What are you trying to prove?

140 posted on 02/06/2008 1:41:49 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Why are protectionists so bad at math?)
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