Posted on 02/05/2008 3:42:50 AM PST by Man50D
Unspinning the FairTax - We look at the numbers behind the numbers.
Thanks to FactCheck.org (includes sources)
So much for the advisory panel and anything it has to say. In fact, I can't remember a presidential panel so villified by the public as this one.
well.. you have the “I can’t remember” part right...
Facts:
The progressive income tax is noted as a major plank in Karl Marx’s ten-point plan for a communist society (p. xx–1) as are government schools
Tax confiscations are limited only by the people’s willingness to tolerate it; politicians have no limit to what they would take
The U.S. survived with no income tax for most of its history
The war of 1861–1865 was not a civil war, but a war for independence from the national government (Thomas Woods)
Corporations don’t pay taxes; only individuals do
The employer’s share of Social Security and Medicare is actually paid by the employee
Corporations move offshore to avoid the high US tax rates
There have been ten thousand amendments to the simplified tax code of 1986, all to the benefit of those lobbying for the changes (are you one of these?)
The IRS: Still a Grave Threat to FreedomM
IRS Abuses Offer Insight Into Dangers of Wiretap Program
There's a lot more.
Of course, if you're one of the abusers, then you don't really care.
Try referencing some stories that aren’t old enough to shave for cripes sake...
Remember the old saying: "like talking to a brick wall"?
You obviate the need for the wall.
You wanted facts and you got them. Can't deny them, can you.
They IRS hasn't changed it's stripes and it's likely to worsen under a Clinton regime.
Just for the record, why are you so attached to the income tax?
All of my SS friends are not paying income tax. Some are paying income tax on their income if they are drawing from IRA, 401k, or investments.
Why do you seem stuck between Jim Jones and David Karesch?
Once you put your eddress and check the “send more info” box you are giving them permission to spam the hell out of you...theirs and others.
I was wrong. Only about 1/3 have to pay taxes on SS benefits:
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10035.html
3/4 of the way down: “Benefits May be Taxable”.
When you don't have a legitimate argument, deflect.
Nice try.
So you do have a vested interest in maintaining the income tax.
Figures..............
There’s an ongoing debate over here too:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1958093/posts?page=532#532
Nobody seems to address it. And some of the FT supporters are downright condescending of anyone who made major decisions based on the government’s PROMISE of not being federally taxed again on Roth funds once they paid the tax up front. See my post for an argument on why the responses of “no more embedded tax” are BS and not relevant to the Roth issue.
File, I think what the poster meant was that at present nothing prevents us from having both a sales tax and an income tax. In fact Charlie Wrangle had already authored a bill to try to get support for doing just that. The FairTax bill does, at least, give us some protection from having both since it not only voids the necessary portions of the income tax laws and defunds the IRS but it also requires the destruction of the income tax records. That gives us the necessary breathing space (while having an operational FairTax to provide revenue) to pass the "repeal the 16th" now in congress and get it ratified (It does not require a presidential signature).
It's a great sham - pushed by each and every anti FairTax attack-bot on these threads that everything one spends is taxed and at a "30%" rate. That's "stuff and nonsense" as my granny used to say. To reasonably and fairly compare the present tax system and the FairTax the 23% rate is the correct one to use since income tax is tax inclusive.
Not everything one spends is taxed under the FairTax and that when combined with the prebate greatly lowers the effective tax rate. In fact, typically the FairTax effective tax rate is about half of the effective income tax rate presently so that the FairTax rate will most likely be less than the embedded taxes in the cost of goods and in any event under the present system one will certainly be "contributing" to Uncle's tax take whether he realize it or not and under the FairTax any such spending will not always be taxed but when it is it will be at the lower effective FairTax rate.
If the FairTax gives us another 80 years of "simplicity" I'd certainly take that - that's far better than the present circumstance. I don't know that any of the FairTax supporters will argue with you about the spending, but this is a revenue raising bill, not a spending authorization. And "how they steal" IS very important and having the FairTax gives us the visibility for all taxpayers to see how poorly their elected reps are performing with no place for them to hide and finger point (as they now do) to try to escape that responsibility. With the FairTax, those hiding places go away and allow the voters to zero in on the bad actors which will then be clearly identifiable. The fact that prices will probably also go down is a big plus also, but mainly improving our exporters businesses would greatly help the economy as should having this country be the largest tax haven from the standpoint of attracting capital for investment (meaning job creation, etc.). So yes, it does matter.
Read it and learn a bit ...
It that’s “the truth” what was everything else... LIES???
(25%) Bean counters to the SS admin
(25%) Paper Pushers to mediscam admin
(50%) Agents and Managers to the new “BATFE-FT”
Actually it's quite a bit of protection while presently under the income tax there is none at all. A sales tax could be voted upon us by congress if they took the notion and one dear Democratic congressman has authored a bill for just that purpose in the last congress. He'll no doubt do it again this session.
So it's your belief that congress can merely "snap its fingers" with the income tax eliminated, the records destroyed and no funding available and - poof - we'd magically have income tax again. Your notion is absurd since if there are enough votes to pass the FairTax (and I believe there will be) there are certainly enough to block any such attempts. After all, that's what we as voters are working to prevent ... well perhaps not you and a few of your ilk.
The FairTax can reasonably only be compared to the tax it replaces - and that's the income tax which is tax inclusive just as the FairTax is. Comparing the two with each on a different tax basis is totally meaningless. I note that none of the attack-bot tribe compare the income tax as tax exclusive with the FairTax as tax inclusive but only by using the misleading differing base for each. Perhaps we should state both as tax exclusive ... yeah, that'd be just fine don't you think???
Your state sales tax percentage is completely irrelevant since most such taxes are rife with exemptions/exclusions thereby raising their rates. Under the FairTax most states will probably opt to conform the the FairTax which would allow the lowering of the state sales tax rates by a very good percentage. The effective FairTax rate will not be "30%" (which is actually 23% to compare it to income tax rates) nor anything like it. It will be something like half the effective tax rate presently under the income tax for most people.
Revenue neutral in the first year and after that the rising economy that results and the benefits to taxpayers along with it will most likely allow the rate to be decreased (unless you and your buddies wish to give the government more money to waste).
If you can't see the obvious flaws in the present tax system that allow congress to boost taxes and give special breaks to special groups or individuals you're certainly more ignorant than you look. With the FairTax there's a single rate, no exceptions and each congressman will be responsible for his up or down vote on it. With the income tax there are endless bills, exceptions, special provisions, etc. going through each session of congress and many opportunities in each for a crafty pol to hide and say "I didn't do that one". With the FairTax it will be plainly obvious to all how high the tax is in each purchase being made at the point of purchase.
You can't see that removing the costs of the income tax system from our exported goods will help us lower prices??? REALLY???!!! Is it your belief it will somehow RAISE prices?
If you genuinely believe that "all of the same results" (you're admitting that there are indeed benefits you see) could be accomplished by tiptoeing through the tax code that we now have, I wonder why it hasn't happened in almost 100 years. At any rate, put your legislation before congress and be sure to post the bill number here so we can all enjoy it.
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