Posted on 02/01/2008 9:33:23 AM PST by FR_addict
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
Ted Sampley, a Vietnam Veteran and former Green Beret, issued a CHALLENGE to John McCain "If you can show us that the information presented in our mailer is untruthful . . . we will Stand Down" This CHALLENGE was issued during an interview with INSIDE EDITION on January 17, 2008.
John, family members of Vietnam POW/MIA(s) have been waiting for more then 14 years for you to have the courage to face them eye to eye in front of the American Public - Here is your opportunity for some "STRAIGHT TALK." Stop hiding behind your fabricated "War Hero" persona. You know we can prove your collaborations with declassified government documents . . . It is time for the American people to get to know the REAL John McCain - the John McCain that the POW/MIA families witnessed during the 1991-93 US Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs .
Bring It On John! HERE IS OUR NUMBER 252-527-0442
“Odd that this info just now comes out.”
It has been out there for years.
I guess it wasn’t important until now.
Sorry, will NOT vote for him in the primary.
Isn’t there enough to hang him with, without calling in his duty to the nation into question. I can’t believe we are going to go the route of how honorable a candidate in wartime is going to influence another race. It’s a tired embarassing schtick. McCains senate record should suffice.
If a comrade in arms can’t question a former servicemember then who can. The only reason it will backfire is if people want to see it as an attack on a hero. I will never discount McCain’s service or experience but I think those who served at the same time should not have their hands tied while they scrutinize his claims. Look what happened to Kerry when he mentioned(always talked about)his time in service. The questions are legitimate.
Yup. I will never vote for McCain, but these people that critize anything he did in the Hanoi Hilton think "Hogan's Heros" was a documentary.
Because the traitors were released early ;
this is why he was offered early release.
No matter what you think about McCain this Vietnam Vets vs McCain site has a lot of info from fellow Vets as well as POW/MIA families that document McCain as not worthy of any public office. The Videos should be seen and the records on McCains POW years are surely in the hands of the Dems...just be prepared, McCain will not make the Oval Office no matter what his supporters think. He is damaged goods!
We can argue the meaning of “war hero” forever,
this article was specific to him allowing the mantle of “war hero” charge to be foisted on his head, and some apparent actions or comments made by him in regard to vietnam affairs.
Now, if there are broader, more recent charges against political behavior, than I assure you that those are being well covered in other threads.
I believe the charge by POW/MIA groups that are against McCain is that he somehow has thwarted attempts to go back and get supposed vets still in prison. It is my opinion that after reviewing all the material based on his research as a senator that he wants people to get on with their lives, though hard it may be. And a part of getting on with their lives is to further normalize relations with Vietnam to allow greater access to crash sites. But to put out there that McCain is somehow involved in some silent cabal to keep POW’s further imprisoned is somewhat hard to believe.
But then again, two actors from the movie “Predator” become governors of large states.
“The guy did years in the Hanoi Hilton and refused an offer of early release ahead of his prison mates. Misguided attacks on McCain’s service will give credence to the liberals who claim the Swiftees were wrong about John French Kerry.”
Why did he refuse an offer of early release? An alternate explanation is that it would have ruined his future Navy career, and that it would have ruined any future political career: the Admiral’s son who accepted special treatment.
Who knows if he took some moral stand, or if he was simply preserving his future career possibilities.
I’ve seen enough of McCain over twenty years to think the latter is just as likely as the former.
“But in order to finally put this war behind us, the decision was made not to investigate, or at least, not to do so publicly. I also recall some POWS being quite upset and vocal about that decision.”
And probably some of the reason behind it is that some POWs DID break, as McCain personally admitted to in his book and movie on his life. Look, this was an unpleasant time for a lot of people, but it does nothing to stick a screwdriver in the former POWs’ wounds and slowly turn the handle with conspiratorial relish.
Who here on this thread has been tortured in Vietnam???? Anyone??? (crickets.)
It wasn’t? Oh crap, now I suppose your going to tell me McHale’s Navy isn’t either?
It wasn’t? Oh crap, now I suppose your going to tell me McHale’s Navy isn’t either?
I am confused. From what I have read, the POWs that were actually with McCain all attest to his bravery under extreme torture which has left him crippled. I have read that he was excellent at giving misinformation, and held up as well as it seems anyone possibly can. In addition, I believe that he refused early release (I have never heard this disputed), which was offered to him for propaganda value (his dad being an admiral). So as far as I have read, with the exception of intercepted “Charlie” propaganda, posted on the above site, which I am disinclined to give much credence to, he did not collaborate with the Vietnamese as a POW.
I ask the following, in sincere desire to be informed: why would he collaborate instead of just leaving? He was sorely in need of medical attention the majority of his five years there. Are these folks asserting that he stayed in a festering prison fighting dissentary and try to heal broken bones because he truly sympathized with the Vietnamese cause? I am rather incredulous at that, so I am asking any informed freeper without hysterics to clarify me if I require it on this point.
Now, on to the 1992 hearings issue, because it seems that that is the sites primary meaning by “collaboration”. I watched some of these videos, and am personally torn. On one hand, I have tremendous respect for the military, and desire closure for the families of missing soldiers. On the other hand, I have heard arguments that the greater good was accomplished by moving forward with diplomatic relations and trying to put the past behind us so as to reassert freedom and influence in a region where we had lost it to the powers of communism. That argument is essentially that it is highly unlikely that any American POWs were alive by the early nineties, and we were able to strengthen the victory of the cold war by reasserting ourselves in the region.
I watch these videos on the hearings, and two things (I am just being honest) sort of run through my mind simultaneously: 1.) I am angry for these people and the Americans that we lost. America’s lack of follow-up on soldiers left behind is unforgivable and disgusts me to the core. It is horribly unjust to the servicemen and their poor families left without closure 2.) Some of these people sound and look like UFO conspiracy theorists. I am sorry but that’s kind of what pops in my head.
So I am admittedly less informed than I would like to be, and am seeking good sources of info on the subject of the hearings... ones that are relatively objective (not necessarily neutral, just objective). Can anyone point me in the right direction?
“John McCain is a hero because he served his country honorably.”
He isn’t a hero. He is a POW patriot who loves his country. As were the others that survived.
Let’s not create a diversion on the real issues of the day.
Man I’d hate to see how much you would write if you were informed.
“It is well-documented that he collaborated - ie he did not follow the rules of conduct”
What is the rules of conduct, General, seeing that you are an expert in SEER training and POW affairs?
Is McCain a war hero?
By Vietnam era definitions, maybe. By historic definitions, NO.
Maybe someone could quickly provide us with a list of great POW war heroes from WWI, WWII and Korea.
I think the Vietnam POWs became substitute heroes as US involvement in that war wound down because people looked around for something to celebrate, or something to be positive about, and the return of the POWs was the only thing they could find. There was much TV coverage of their return and many recognitions, etc. Probably as a substitute for the victory parades of earlier wars.
POW survivors can be admired for many things, but I don’t think they’ve ever been called war heroes before Vietnam.
Anyone have a list from prior wars?
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