In Search of Moderate Muslims

Commentary ^ | February 2008 | Joshua Muravchik and Charles P. Szrom

[IronJack]

It would be a more productive use of your time to look for dehydrated water. Evil -- violence, hatred, savagery -- are sine qua nons of islam. You cannot separate them, and whatever islam is without them, it isn't islam anymore.

No, this war is between civilization and barbarity, and we're letting the animals win.

[reg45]

Why does this bring to mind the image of Diogenes and his lantern?

[Fiddlstix]

In Search of Moderate Muslims
(Film At 11:00)

It's going to be a long yet fruitless search

[MrB]

terrorism is the logical consequence of Islam

Actually, WAR and conquest are the STATED goals of Islam. It's what the "religion" is based on.

Terrorism is a way of conducting war when your technology isn't up to waging an open war of conquest. Back when they most advance war weapon was a horse/camel and a sword or lance, the Muslims conducted open war. Now that technology has advanced, and they have not (see below), they must resort to "asymetric" warfare, ie, terrorism. Islam, despite the PC myths, has provided NO scientific advancement, EVER. Any "advancement" was by their non-muslim dhimmis that lived as virtual slaves. The main reason that Islam cannot achieve any science is in their view of creation and the creator. The Judaeo-Christian God is GOOD, and consistent, and reliable. Therefore, the rules of nature are consistent and discoverable. The ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter is ALWAYS going to be the same. To "impose" the above "chains" on "Allah" will get your head removed. As an aside, those who dismiss the idea of a Creator risk falling into the same non-advancement trap. If everything is random and an accident, then there is no reason to go searching for the rules that the Creator established, now, is there?

[Tennessean4Bush]

He seems like the only moderate out there.

The progress we are enjoying right now in Iraq against both AQI and JAM are in large part due to the belated rising up of moderate muslims against the extremists. There is a real movement in Iraq for reconciliation and you will find more hatred there for al Qaeda than anywhere on earth.

Feel free to flame away and work it out of your system, but then I dare you to go read bulk of the embed news reports coming out of Iraq at the Long War Journal or Michael Yon Online and see if you still think there are no moderate muslims.

If you don't have time to do that, just take a moment to read Come Home by Yon and let me know if you can read that and still believe there are not a growing vocal majority of moderate muslims being created now in Iraq that will be our allies in the WOT for decades to come.

Today, Muslims mostly filled the front pews of St. John’s. Muslims who want their Christian friends and neighbors to come home. The Christians who might see these photos likely will recognize their friends here. The Muslims in this neighborhood worry that other people will take the homes of their Christian neighbors, and that the Christians will never come back. And so they came to St. John’s today in force, and they showed their faces, and they said, “Come back to Iraq. Come home.” They wanted the cameras to catch it. They wanted to spread the word: Come home. Muslims keep telling me to get it on the news. “Tell the Christians to come home to their country Iraq.”

The Dome Under the Cross: Local Muslim and Christian leaders had prepared the church for his arrival.

[navyguy]

I understand what you’re saying... the number is extremely small. But there are a small number of groups that are on the right track. Here is one of them...

http://www.aifdemocracy.org/

That said, they are totally outnumbered by radicals, including here in the US.

[Valin]

Thank you so much for reminding me why I don’t come here very much any more.

[Valin]

Well Put! unfortunately for some it’ll just go in one ear circle twice and head out the other.
Bigots are like that.

[Tennessean4Bush]

That said, they are totally outnumbered by radicals, including here in the US.

It's the extremists who are totally outnumbered in Iraq now.

[Tennessean4Bush]

Bigots are like that.

I understand and sympathize with the frustration your statement is borne from; nevertheless, I do take exception. I do not think all who express frustration at the relative silence from moderate muslims are fairly termed "bigots." They have a point because of what they hear constantly in media: that is they only hear the extremist voice. This, coupled with the fact that the muslim religion has proven to be fertile ground for extremists for some time now, makes people more than a little cynical when presented with phrase "moderate muslim."

To be sure, some, perhaps quite a few, are bigots. But not too long ago I also believed that moderate muslims were either non-existent or too unconcerned to care about how their religion has been hijacked. Whether or not I am (or was) correct, that description is no longer a fair one when you read carefully and with an open mind about what has happened in Iraq in late 2006 and through 2007. A sea-change in opinion among the Sunnis in Iraq has taken place regarding the extremists. They do not even regard them as true "Muslims" and their hatred for them is white-hot. The thousands of grassroots relationships forged between the Army and Marines on the US side and the local sheiks on the Iraq side is remarkably deep and will pay enormous dividends in the War on Terror in the decades to come. Yon put it best:

There may be little progress on political goals crafted in America, to meet American concerns, by politicians who have a cushion of 200 years of democracy. Washington might as well be on the moon. Iraqis don’t respond well to rules imposed from outside their acknowledged authorities, though I have many times seen Iraqi Police and Army of all ranks responding very well to American Marines and soldiers who they have come to respect, and in many cases actually admire and try to emulate. Our military has increasing moral authority in Iraq, but the same cannot be said for our government at home. In fact, it’s in moral deficit because many Iraqis are increasingly frightened we will abandon them to genocide. The Iraqis I speak with couldn’t care less what is said from Washington but large numbers of them pay close attention to what some Marine Gunny says, or what American battalion commanders all over Iraq say. Some of our commanders could probably run for local offices in Iraq, and win. To say there has been no political progress in Iraq in 2007 is patently absurd, completely wrong and dangerously dismissive of the significant changes and improvements happening all across Iraq. Whether or not Americans are seeing it on the nightly news or reading it in their local papers, Iraqis are actively writing their children’s history.

[Leftism is Mentally Deranged]

That should be an interesting search.
How is “moderate” defined? - rubbing novocaine on the machete when chopping heads?
Putting rubber balls in suicide vests instead of metal balls?
Locking children in a school and just torturing them, not killing them?
Lotsa luck!
“Moderate”. Does that include those who send money to organizations that masquerade as charities but send the money to terrorists? Does that include those who quietly do nothing and thereby show that they accept the terrorism? (like the germans who did nothing during nazism)

[SatinDoll]

No doubt, there are Muslims who despise radical Islamists. But they hate Christians and Jews more than they hate their “brothers” in Islam, and the role of jihad in spreading Islam throughout the world is never repudiated by any Muslim.

Or are you going to take issue with that, too?

Until there is universal acceptance by Islam which repudiates the “Right to Kill” and the desire for world-wide dominance via the sword, I am not going to let my defenses down, no matter how sweetly they try to convince me.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks FARS. The search could take a while.

[Allegra]

I wrestled with the decision to post a response on this thread. The worst gang-up flamings I have ever gotten on FR were for saying things like "not all Muslims are evil."

That being said, I'm saying it again.

Oh, shortly after 9/11, I was one of the throngs who cried out that all of them were evil dastardly, people with no hearts and no souls. I never fully believed that, but it was a collective emotional mindset at the time.

Most of them aren't evil and most of them aren't extremists. I can't vouch for the demographics of more fundamental countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, but in Kuwait, the UAE, Jordan, Bahrain and Iraq, I can state from first-hand experience that most of these people aren't much different from any of us.

I have met extremists and they chill me to the very depths of my soul. I've met several Mehdi militia members and I'm sure I've unwittingly come across al Qaeda scum as well. Some people here make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck and my hand does not stray far from my hip where my 9 mm is holstered on these occasions.

But the regular Ahmed-on-the-street disdains the fundamentalists, even clandestinely making fun of them with exaggerated bowing and chanting. They tend to believe the basics in the Koran, but do not subscribe to the wild-eyed, fanatical interpretations of the extremists.

In bigger cities such as Amman and Baghdad, at least half of the women dress western-style, some more provocatively than I ever would. They watch American movies, listen to western music (they even have this awful blend of Arabic music and hip-hop that is an assault on the senses), use western slang, enjoy alcoholic beverages and appear enthralled with American culture. I know several who LOVE pork bacon. I know more who do not fast during Ramadan than who do.

They tell me about the days before the wars when Sunni, Shia and Christians all lived in the same neighborhoods and socialized with each other, not really caring much who was what religion.

The majority of Iraqis are on our side. They want peace, freedom and prosperity. They don't hate us and they don't have a desire to hate us. We have many honest and open discussions about this. Some tell us that they resent the US coming in here and telling them how to do things. But they do not resent us removing a dictatorship.

Some who despised us in the early days have come to the realization that we really are here to help, whereas al Qaeda, who painted big, blue skies for them are really just snake-oil salesmen who created more chaos than the inital war ever did.

And that's my $.02.

[353FMG]

“..they are totally outnumbered by radicals, including here in the US.”

Why do we allow radical Muslims to remain in the country? I thought we were at war with them. Did we allow Nazi troops in the country during WWII?

I forgot, our politicians loved their country then.

[george76]

Moderate Muslims = temporarily out of bullets ?

[SunkenCiv]

:’D

[AmericanVictory]

As long as the courts are based on Sharia law, how will Iraq become a prosperous modern nation?

If the oil weapon is removed how will Iraq ever prosper?

[navyguy]

Nice post, Allegra. Thanks for your service and keep your head on a swivel while you’re over there.

God Bless!

[Valin]

Bigots are like that.
I understand and sympathize with the frustration your statement is borne from; nevertheless, I do take exception. I do not think all who express frustration at the relative silence from moderate muslims are fairly termed "bigots."

A couple of years ago I might've agreed with you but by this stage of the game anyone who cares to look can find plenty of Muslims who do not support the Islamic terrorists. Therefore they must either be dumber than dirt or bigots...but I repeat myself.