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Posted on 01/18/2008 7:40:41 AM PST by NYer
Gainesville, FL (AHN) - Dr. Jack Kevorkian surprised a crowd of over 5,000 people at the University of Florida (UF) Tuesday night when he unleashed an attack on the "made up mythology of religion," and said that while in medical school he never took the Hippocratic Oath.
Kevorkian, 79, spent his time in Gainesville meeting with the UF ACCENT Speakers Bureau and speaking with students at a question-and-answer session ahead of his sold-out speech at the Stephen C. O'Connell Center, Tuesday evening. Throughout the day though, Kevorkian's theme remained focused on the often overlooked 9th Amendment and the "terrible crisis" that is gripping the nation.
Aside from what some students called a "rambling tirade on law," Kevorkian did take some time to address the issue that most had come to hear; physician-assisted suicide. Kevorkian said he disagreed with an Oregon law that mandated a patient must take the suicidal medicine himself. Kevorkian has long maintained that suicide must be treated as a medical procedure, with the direct intervention of a physician, who will make sure there is an immediate and painless death.
"It's got to be a medical service. That's the only way to control it... It must be a medical service, so the obstacle is the [American Medical Association]. All you have to do is declare it to be a medical service, legitimately, and they'll take care of all the rest of it, just like they do with every medical procedure. You can't dictate medical procedures by law; they change all the time; research changes."
"My aim was not to cause death, that's crazy. My aim was to end suffering." Kevorkian cited modern examples of physician-assisted suicides, including the medically-involved deaths of author Mark Twain, psychologist Sigmund Freud and British King George V.
Yet from there, Kevorkian digressed into an attack on Catholic doctors, the Hippocratic oath and religion. Kevorkian said that the Hippocratic oath "wasn't discussed in medical school, and our class never took the oath. It isn't a medical oath; you pledge allegiance to all the gods and goddess, the pagan gods and goddesses of Greeks - what sense is that today?" He added that the Hippocratic oath was the byproduct of a "secret, small Pythagorean sect" that was the only group to oppose the ancient tradition of a physician helping a terminally ill patient end his life.
"The only oath we have, the only ethics we have in medicine are religious ethics" and "religion is nothing more than a made-up mythology [and] the basis of religion is fear."
"A doctor limited by dogma isn't a real physician; he should have been a priest," Kevorkian said. "They think life's sacred... I don't feel sacred, frankly. I've got a life and I don't feel sacred."
Overall, students felt Kevorkian should have spent more time talking about physician-assisted suicide, the issue that brought him to trial five times in the 1990's and finally led to his conviction in 1999. "It's good to hear his point of view," UF undergraduate student Kristen Perry said. "I don't know if i would go so far as to say that euthanasia should be legalized, but I think if it is, he's definitely right about how we should go about doing it."
Another issue ahead of the speech was protests. While local activist groups like the UF on-campus branch of the Pro Life Alliance organization claimed almost a hundred demonstrators would show up, AHN found a meager handful of bused-in retirees and high school students on hand for the event. A graphic banner equating abortion to physician-assisted suicide was silently put up while bland signs saying "DEATH isn't welcome here" were handed out to a handful of demonstrators who braved 40-degree weather to get their message out.
Bobby Schindler, brother of the late Terri Schiavo, was also scheduled to make an appearance amid the tight security the university arranged for the event. However, despite starting a petition to persuade UF to rescind its offer to Kevorkian and speaking out against the speech to several pro-life groups, Schindler was an inexplicable no-show on Tuesday.
Local and university police were on hand, but the protesters gathered without even a chant and went largely unnoticed by a sold-out crowd that began lining up hours before the event. In the end, it was Kevorkian's radical comments on race, religion and the state of the Union that became the bombshell.
You inadvertently sent me a copy of your post to weegee.
I guess you really didn’t read my comments or you would address the issue, not that particular case, as I did. Or you can just keep telling me how evil the guy is without addressing the issue of assisted suicide.
Don't act sacred either, do you? More like a worthless POS, to tell you the truth.
There is freedom, then there is license.
There are reasons for stop signs, courts and prisons.
Doing as you please is not freedom...
Doing what you should is.
Maybe someone slept with your daughter who was 12 years of age... why not, she’s a woman now physically; In the old days they were married off that age. Would that make it okay with you? (I know, only if your 12 year old didn’t have a problem). How about a man with your young son... I guess if it were part of his culture and history... why not? How about lack of service for your dad because of what a hospital viewed as sucky insurance... contrasted with that rich guy across the hall. Would that be okay?
Let’s say your father had a better chance of survival if treated vs. the other... any different?
Let’s say we put Groningen Protocol in place here and kill children after birth... maybe even up till 12. I’m sure for the disabled it would be fine for you (they’re such a burden), but what of the poor kids? Is it better for them to be taken out than live in poverty? BTW, three doctors make the decision, the parents don’t have say. But since other physicans agree, i’m sure you wouldn’t have a problem with that either. You would just be the parent is all... we may actually have to pay taxes for your kids care.
How about cloning folks for organs? Hell, how about using inmates organs... who are they anyway (they’ll get to do something positive with their lives for once). Might as well use them for testing too. Nevermind if they’re guilty of whatever crime they were charged with.
What if I helped myself to several items in your home... well the world belongs to everyone in my eyes, and a single person cannot claim land that he didn’t make (Or charge for water thinking about it), who produces soil and water?
Your questions about sex with children are ridiculous and not related to the question at hand.
Your other questions are people doing things to other people without their consent.
I guess you can't relate to the simple straight forward subject at hand, so you have made up situations which are not analogous.
F for logic. B- for nice try.
Jack Kevorkian...the perfect Surgeon General for the Democratic Party.
My father struggled with pulmonary fibrosis for 17 years before he finally died. He was on hospice. He had enough medicine to knock down 10 horses, to include high quantities of morphine and oxycontin (when my mom disposed of the meds after he died, she commented that the street value of the drugs could have her living in luxury for the rest of her life...and provide me a very substantial inheritance). His quality of life, particularly the last five years, was crap. He went through h3ll and put my mom through h3ll.
My dad was not a religious man. In fact, for the last forty years of his life, he had a deep and burning hatred and resentment of all things religious. His greatest disappointment was when I became religious. We worked out an agreement, though, the last several years of his life. He would not rant against my religion if I agreed not to proselytize him. I held to that agreement until the day he died (although I did pray for him without his knowledge).
I cannot picture that his physician prescribed him his pain medication for any reason other than to provide palliative care. His physician, I am certain, recognized that had my dad wanted, he could have overdosed, but that would not have been the motivation for writing the prescriptions. (Physicians typically prescribe a 30-day supply of maintenance drugs, even if the patient could have gotten more frequent refills)
But I could never have imagined discussing the subject of suicide with my father. "Gee, Dad, if you took this bottle at once, you'd be out of pain forever." I can't even imagine bringing the subject up in the context of discouraging it, as I wouldn't want to "plant the idea."
My dad was a lot of things, not all of them good. But one thing he wasn't was a quitter or a wimp. The last three years of his life he had a DNR (do not resuscitate) order. And when it was finally time, he gave up the ghost (and they didn't resuscitate). But for all the years he went through what he went through, I don't think that suicide was even an option on the table for him. Not for religious reasons (as I said earlier, he despised all things religious). Not for some extraordinary strength of character (I rule that out for reasons that I will keep private). But he, for all his flaws, recognized that suicide was not the way to go.
You then stated,
If your religion precludes you from doing this, even faced with debilitating pain, then God be with you, but don't codify your believes and prevent the rest of us from using the option.
My dad had no religious beliefs. He had no joy in his life. He had no hope of heaven. He only knew the pain and the degeneration in his life. Suicide simply wasn't an option.
All people with a degenerative condition are not the same. Most do the right thing and fight until they're worn out and then expire. Religious belief or not. Not all people do what your dad did and took the easy way out. Suicide is the ultimate egocentric act of an egocentric person. You might be able to act high-and-mighty with some, but I went through as much, if not more, with my dad than you did with yours...so don't even try it with me.
And don't ascribe a desire to 'assist' patients into offing themselves to physicians who prescribe high doses of potentially lethal meds. Some may do that. Most don't.
If somebody wants to take his own life, then nobody can stop him. Therefore, he has the freedom to do so. But a society that sanctions that behavior has terminally (no pun intended) turned the corner to its own destruction. If you like that behavior, I suggest that you move to the UK or to the Netherlands (where people are free). God help the US if we ever do so.
If you think that amount of medicine was left there because he needed a month supply of morphine, you are naive.
I pray for the day when the government or dogooders like yourself do not impose a course of action on what I do with my life.
After Schiavo the Euthanasia Society and legal cohorts had legislation waiting to spring on 13 states.
If you saw the CSPAN conference with governors re: insurance costs and social security, you would see where they were going. Cited repeatedly were the huge cost of elderly and disabled, as well as their burden on Social Security and Medicare.
This is a part of the eugenics tree... it has many branches. For us, the Buck decision kicked it off.
I have found many who died in the home... the children come down from CT, NH or elsewhere, just to collect. They hadn’t visited, and could give a damn about their mothers and fathers. This is a different world and God forbid anyone should be inconvenienced.
I feel very sorry for you.
Save your pity for those you want to control and be thankful some people still believe in freedom, especially over their own lives.
I am not defending or representing any poisition of groups, politicans, or government agencies.
If you could only read your writing through another set of eyes…
…I usually only see that much anger coming from a hard core left-winger (and no I am not accusing you of that fault).
You should find calmer lefty-wingers to talk to and stop implying that I am one of them. Is this what your beliefs let you do; ttempt to control others and try to smear them on internet websites?
Kevorkian, a serial killer with the perfect cover.
You have the ability to make the decision for yourself, but asking others to assist you in carrying out your wishes is another thing. You do not have the right to impose your desire to die on the consciences of others.
I watched my own father die of cancer and held his hand as he went. I know what it means to see a loved one deal with pain and illness. Adding suicide to what is already a tragedy doesn’t help anyone.
As for your second point, I already described my fahter's death and suicide was not involved. It's not for you to judge what's tragic in the death of another and then impose your judgement on them. It's their call.
I absolutely addressed your position.
In many cases when someone is very ill they don’t have the ability to commit suicide by themselves. They need the help of someone else. At that point, it is no longer suicide, but murder.
Again, you can choose to kill yourself if you want and no one can stop you if you’re determined, but you have no right to ask anyone else to supply the “weapon” or assist you in carrying out your desires.
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"You do not have the right to impose your desire to die on the consciences of others."
I pointed out the error in your comment, but you ignored it. What is it about being terminally ill or extremely weak that would not allow you to make the request? Do you think the person will get out of bed and beat you up? Is it okay for the person to ask for pain killer if they are in pain or might that violate your belief also. Wouldn't want to impose on others.
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