It's a matter of opinion, he has the expertise to complain but he has no more right than anyone else and that, despite what a few others may think, does not make his comments above reproach...BTW. I am retired Active duty...
Posted on 01/15/2008 3:54:16 PM PST by got_moab?
Albert Jordan, 21, isn’t one to hold back, especially when he describes what it’s like being a soldier in Iraq.
“It sucks…It’s definitely an experience, but it sucks being in Iraq,” said Jordan, a U.S. Army Specialist, during an interview with the Beacon, a day after returning home from his first tour of duty.
“At first it’s kind of exciting because you’re doing different things. You’re doing what you see in video games, but then a couple of IED’s [improvised explosive devices] go off or a couple of bullets go by your head and you go, ‘Whoa, what is this I got myself into?’ And then you start thinking too much.”
The 21-year-old 2004 Pilgrim graduate who lives on Parkview Avenue joined the Army in May of 2005, and was sent to Baghdad, the world’s most dangerous city, in 2006. He spent both his 20th and 21st birthday in Baghdad.
To illustrate the extreme danger soldiers face on a daily basis, Jordan told a story.
One afternoon in Baghdad, Jordan and his comrades were on patrol. They noticed a mound of fresh dirt in the yard of a residence—a telltale sign of a hidden weapons cache. After affirming their suspicions and finding barrels full of weapons, the group followed protocol and checked the lot next door.
Jordan, a staff sergeant and an interpreter approached an Iraqi man in the next house and began to question him.
“We were just kind of standing around, and then we heard a single crack and the wall, just a few feet away from my face, exploded. It went Ka-boom,” said Jordan.
He was the target of a sniper.
“We didn’t know where it was coming from, but someone’s not just going to shoot randomly…We got out of there and I was like ‘Wow, I almost got shot in the face,’” he said.
The story isn’t an isolated incident. It’s one of many that Jordan chose randomly.
That’s the reality of being an Army Specialist in Baghdad. The threat of a sniper’s bullet, an explosion of an improvised bomb or even a drive-by shooting, is as pervasive as the sand during a windstorm.
“You go out and you say to yourself, ‘Is this going to be the last day that I woke up,’” said Jordan.
How does one deal with the reality that death could realistically come at any given second?
“You just don’t think about it. You try not to as hard as you can,” said Jordan.
As time passed, Jordan began to question the purpose of the mission.
“Every day someone is getting killed, and we’d ask ourselves, ‘What is this for,’” Jordan said.
Jordan granted that while he doesn’t like being in a war zone, it does come with the territory. What makes the Iraq war an even harder pill for him to swallow is the fact that he doesn’t understand the rationale for it. After all, Iraq never attacked America, he notes.
Some will argue that America is establishing democracy in the Middle East, but Jordan counters that democracy is something that must come from within, it can’t be imposed.
Most troubling, he said, is the fact that since the invasion, the military has acted less and less like a military and more like police.
“We’re not police officers. We’re trained to go and kill people in battles, not keep them in line,” said Jordan.
Like many in the private sector, while he doesn’t agree with the mission set up by his superiors, he follows orders dutifully.
Jordan said he believes the surge has been successful in reducing violence over the last year, but notes that it also increases the likelihood of soldiers being killed because with more American troops comes more targets for the Iraqi insurgents.
And although he doesn’t agree with the war, he rejects the notion of setting timetables for withdrawals, as some prominent Democrats have suggested. It wouldn’t be wise, Jordan said, to tell an enemy when you plan on retreating.
He believes the U.S. will treat Iraq like South Korea, Japan and Germany and remain there indefinitely.
Jordan joined the Army for a number of reasons.
First and foremost, he comes from a military family. His sister, Shannon Wyatt, is also a member of the Army. His older brother, Don Moyer, a Warwick lawyer, was also in the military before becoming a lawyer.
As a child, Jordan always wanted to become a career military man. But he didn’t get around to joining the Army until a couple years after graduating from Pilgrim. He lacked direction, and decided to do his country a favor by enlisting in the Army.
After completing his first stint in Iraq, Jordan said he has no intention of becoming a career military man.
Despite his distaste for the current war, Jordan deeply respects the military, and is thankful for the benefits of being a soldier. The tax-free pay he receives as a soldier is better than that he earned at his last job before enlisting—he worked at Ocean State Job Lot. Also, before he enlisted in the Army, he was in debt. Now he’s debt free.
When he completes his service, he hopes to either parlay his military experience into a position at a local police department, or attend college.
He fully expects to get sent back to Iraq sometime next year, but he isn’t looking forward to it.
“I’m not happy over there. I’m not happy,” said Jordan.
You got that right. I enlisted in the Navy in 76, got out in 80, and reenlisted in 82, 88, 90, and 93. And there were times when I did not want to be someplace even though I volunteered and it wasn’t really dangerous. Near the end of my career, I was getting bored with going to sea and on different cruises. basically because I had been there and done that. And yes, a bitchin’ soldier/sailor/Marine/airman is a happy one - right? 8-)
I met a guy in the Navy - back in 77 during my first year in and on my first ship - who told me he enlisted after seeing a John Wayne film festival on the tube one Sunday.
Soldiers have complained about their lot since the beginning of time. Just like civilians complain about their jobs, or kids complain about their schools. It’s what people do.
Just goes to show you, while the vast majority of our troops are exemplary patriots in every sense of the word, once in a while an idiot sneaks through.
;-/
Will do!
“how many soldiers did they have to ask, “hey, do you hate being stuck over here in Iraq?””
I imagine that practically everyone would rather be home drinking beer and watching the super bowl. Can’t blame them for that.
I think that this guy is over there doing his duty, and has earned the right to complain.
It's a matter of opinion, he has the expertise to complain but he has no more right than anyone else and that, despite what a few others may think, does not make his comments above reproach...BTW. I am retired Active duty...
God bless your pop for saying something so prudent. I never talked about my war days, and only started( very, very little) after my daughter decided to join the IDF( Israeli Defense Forces) and it all came back to me. She gripes just as much as this kid an I laugh and laugh until she slams down the phone in disgust...calls me back in a half hour and we both laugh, she got out of boot camp the first week of the Hizbollah affair last year. Watched some of her friends march into Lebanon while she manned an ambulance.
Only thing is, this kid from Iraq found a reporter with an agenda to gripe to; in Israel there's censorship for a reason. In the war I was in, there was always someone pulling worse duty and it was generally the indigenous folks in the hots spots. There will never be a time in my life i will speak of what I went thrugh, what I saw, to no one, ever except God because I honor the paper I signed some thirty years ago. War s*cks, and B*tching about it makes you fell better for the amount of time you b*tch, then it's over and you move on. You have to move on.
It never changes.....Grunts bitch...
Things can turn dangerous and unhealthy if they’re happy and complacent...
BUT.
In our war - we never had:
- Access to satellite phone calls to our loved ones.
- Access to email and frequent communication with loved ones.
- Hot meals, worthy of the name.
- Air Superiority and Coverage, 24/7
- Body Armor, worthy of the name.
- Armored vehicles for transport.
- Tanks within minutes, when needed.
- Short tours in country - unless WIA/KIA. Always 13 months.
- Outpouring of U.S. public support, both in country and upon returning to the world.
Given all that — I STILL wouldn’t trade my war for the war these kids are fighting today....
At least we knew - the bastard in the jungle, on the river, coming through the grass or crossing rice patty in numbers with weapons were the enemy.....
Street by street, building by building - against an enemy who professes to believe the way to paradise is to die fighting the “infidels” — is NOT the war I’d want to fight on the ground....
I’d probably be bitching too - if I was in their place.
Some folks just go overboard and out of line, while “out of school” with their bitching.
Once home - that crap has to STOP.
“After all, Iraq never attacked America” is pure leftist spew. I’m surprised that you didn’t catch it or do you spew too?
LOL! Indeed! Those were Pioneering days before the WWW came to be...
There are still a few of us from that beginning that are members of Jim's site here on FR. I wish the same spirit that was shared then could be magically transformed here!
You say you were a lurker on that board back then? Then you know why J.R. built this Hallowed site! Especially without the nickel a minute fee! Not to mention without the Clinton protectors know as "Guides"!!!
“I hope that you don’t really think that vets are all of one mind and one opinion regarding OIF/OEF.”
A strawman. Please tell us what vets ‘really’ think of our mission in Iraq.
I would trust military notes written on a sh*tter over what the media reports any day.
You think they all love what they're doing, why and how?
I have never expected a single soldier to love going to war. The soldiers who were briefed before the Normandy invasion were told a large chunk of them would not return. They had a duty, and they did it. They didn't love it. And many of them never discussed it until recently, let alone to the press back then.
I'm very fully aware of the sacrifice they are making. And I respect every single one of them who signed up for the right reasons. My best friend, and one of my personal heroes, told me before he left for Iraq that he wanted to be able to sit his grandson on his lap one day, and tell him that he did something for his country, and that he fought for a just cause.
A day after the guy returns from his first tour in Iraq and he feels like spilling his guts? So what?
You do not, as an active soldier, go to a media outlet, who is already against the military's mission and President Bush, and start second guessing the Commander in Chief. I'm very willing to admit that he doesn't know any better, but it's little comments that like that Al Jazeera will pick up and run with.
He's dead wrong that Hussein never attacked us. And if he wants to use that logic of never attacking us, he has to support the idea that we should have let Hitler overtake Europe on the count that he never attacked us. Under his logic, Japan never attacked us, because Hawaii was not a part of the United States at the time. Hussein attacked our military, but not the mainland United States.
Maybe you should have a few drinks with some vets and see what they really think.
The man I asked to Baptize me was a WWII vet. He's almost totally blind because of war injuries. He would have never gone to the press and criticized Generals Patten, Eisenhower, or Bradley, nor President Roosevelt.
My aforementioned best friend, who is a doctor in the Navy, would never go to the press and mouth off propaganda that Al Jazeera could use.
My brother, who fought in Desert Storm under President Bush, stop lossed under President Clinton to fight in Serbia/Kosovo, would have never gone to the press to criticize the mission or the Commander in Chief.
You seem insistent that this soldier sought out a media rep so that he could spill his guts.
I doubt that it happened like that at all, especially in the first days back from Iraq.
Good chance that the reporter sought him out and engaged him in conversation and let the young man talk without whipping out a steno pad or big microphone.
And I wouldn’t be surprised if most vets from any other era wouldn’t sit with a friendly soul, especially for a couple free beers, and express some opinions that he may have suppressed for a few months.
So where do you get off dogging this guy who already did a tour in Iraq when all you can do it talk about it?
BTW, those porta can remarks aren’t all flattering regarding the war, the mission, or the commander in chief.
I told the other guy to do some first hand research on the matter and I’ve already suggested that you do the same.
Now if you want to say that I don’t know anything about the topic at least have the guts to do it openly.
Or else just STFU.
Pretty crappy sniper.
“I told the other guy to do some first hand research on the matter and I’ve already suggested that you do the same.”
I have, I’m already prepared. You had said something to the effect ‘why don’t you ask what vets [really] think of their mission.’ Well, tell us, what do they ‘really’ think? What were you attempting to insinuate?
“Now if you want to say that I don’t know anything about the topic at least have the guts to do it openly.”
I hoped to find this out by reading your explanation of your insinuation. You appearently are unwilling to explain your comment.
“Or else just STFU.”
No thanks. I enjoy challenging left-wing insinuations.
I was pretty clear in explaining: Go find some OIF/OEF vets, get friendly, buy some drinks and see what they have to say.
And I've repeated that you to twice now.
The idea that vets are a monolithic one minded organism is absurd but you won't really know what they think until you talk to them first hand.
Rush calls those like you "Blockheads" because you get stuck on stupid, spring loaded in the dumb position and unable to do anything other than mentally masturbate to your own words.
No thanks. I enjoy challenging left-wing insinuations.
Geez, now we get into indirect name calling. Yes, you're trying to call me left wing because A) I defended a vet; B) assisted you in appearing anti vet and foolish; C) you look like an ass, know it, and resent me openly laughing at you over it.
FWIW, in my nearly 2 years on Iraq, and in the 3 years since returning I think I've seen enough and talked with enough vets to have a good idea of what this is about.
“I was pretty clear in explaining: Go find some OIF/OEF vets, get friendly, buy some drinks and see what they have to say. “
You still haven’t told me what vets ‘really’ think of the mission in Iraq. By using the term ‘really’, you implied that vets oppose the mission, painting all vets as opposing the mission in Iraq. If my interpretation of your post is wrong, then please explain what you meant when you stated “Maybe you should have a few drinks with some vets and see what they really think.”
“The idea that vets are a monolithic one minded organism is absurd”
Your senseless strawmen mean nothing to me. I’m interesting in hearing your explaination of the term ‘really’ from the original post.
“Rush calls those like you “Blockheads” because you get stuck on stupid, spring loaded in the dumb position and unable to do anything other than mentally masturbate to your own words.”
Your childish insults don’t mean anything to me. I’m only interested in political debate.
“FWIW, in my nearly 2 years on Iraq, and in the 3 years since returning I think I’ve seen enough and talked with enough vets to have a good idea of what this is about.”
You’ve given me no reason to beleive that any of your personal claims are creditable. All you’ve done was call be a ‘blockhead’ and acused me of masterbating. You have no credibility with me. Now you appear to claim that you ‘have a good idea of what this is about’. Care to elaborate on this statement? What is this about? What are you insinuating here? If a majority of vets oppose the mission in Iraq, as you once again appear to be insinuating, why are the re-enlistment rates up? <-——See, that is how I debate. A direct question to your insinuation. Are you willing to answer that question? Since this question has an a accurate pretext that destroys your arguement, I’m guessing no.
O.K. he spewed a bit. Overall, I stick to supporting the guy. He did his duty. Alot of the guys who fought the Germans said the same thing. I know one that spent the rest of his life as an anti-semite. Saw alot of his friends die to save the Jews in Germany, most of whom did nothing to save themselves. How are these two connected? They are both the result of people going to war with little geopolitical accumen. It does not mean they did not do their duty, only that they were confused about why they did it.
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