Liberal Fascism (Jonah Goldberg) on C-SPAN2 Book TV @ 10PM Central 1/12/08

C-SPAN ^ | 1/12/08 | Jonah Goldberg

[Monitor]

Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning

Author: Jonah Goldberg

Upcoming Schedule

Saturday, January 12, at 10:00 PM Sunday, January 13, at 3:30 AM Sunday, January 13, at 10:00 AM Monday, January 14, at 1:00 AM

About the Program

Jonah Goldberg explores the political theories of fascism and contends that there are several colloaries between the politics of the left and fascist ideology. Jonah Goldberg presents his book at The Heritage Foundation in Washington DC.

About the Author

Jonah Goldberg is contributing editor for the National Review and a columnist for the Los Angeles Times. Mr. Goldberg's writing has appeared in several publications, including "The New Yorker," "Wall Street Journal" and "USA Today."

[ketsu]

You have a habit of referring to writers of the past without quoting or even paraphrasing anything they wrote. Then you chide me for not having read them. If that is not pure and simple pedanticism, I don’t know what is. If they wrote something relevant to the current discussion, why don’t you give us a clue what it was.

I am an aerospace engineer, and I don’t have time to waste reading Marx. If that makes me inferior to you in your little mind, then so be it. I don’t really care. I deal in the realm of reality, where you can’t just make stuff up and pretend it’s true. You can claim that the Nazis were not socialists, but if I claimed with a straight face that the moon missions were staged, I would be laughed at.

You seem to be some sort of liberal (modern sense) academic. Liberal academics are notorious for believing the most asinine things. Many if not most of them believed, for example, that Soviet communism was superior to Western capitalism and free enterprise. In fact, many of them still believe that communism will prevail, and I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to find out that you believe that too.

Well, there I go again, wasting yet more time with you.

Have you ever heard of the "great books"? i.e. the base knowledge every educated westerner should know. Before you have an apoplectic fit about "liberal academics" etc... you should realize that the great books are a fundamentally *conservative* phenomenon.

If you're going to pontificate about socialism it helps to know the basics of its intellectual tradition. The fact that you didn't have the common courtesy to at least google what you didn't know about shows just how willfully ignorant you are.

Also addressing your laughable claim that you "deal in reality". As someone who studied physics you should be well aware how laughable that claim is. Is Quantum mechanics more "real" than Newtonian mechanics? Not that I expect you to understand the analogy, but this should prove that you don't even know the implications of *your own field*.

Do you really think I'm "liberal" in your dingbat mind? Or is "liberal" anything you don't understand and don't like?

[RussP]

There you go again, telling me that I should read more books, without a clue about what in those books might pertain to this thread.

And you persist in denying that the National Socialist Nazis were socialists in the face of irrefutable proof to the contrary, apparently because only special people like you really understand the nuances of the word “socialist.”

Actually, I find it hard to believe that anyone could really be as dense as you appear to be, so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and conclude it’s just an act.

I’ve been a fool to go along this far, but I’m not going to take the bait any more. I have far more important things to do. You are free to continue wasting your own time — which I’m sure is worth far less than mine.

[ketsu]

There you go again, telling me that I should read more books, without a clue about what in those books might pertain to this thread.

And you persist in denying that the National Socialist Nazis were socialists in the face of irrefutable proof to the contrary, apparently because only special people like you really understand the nuances of the word “socialist.”

Actually, I find it hard to believe that anyone could really be as dense as you appear to be, so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and conclude it’s just an act.

I’ve been a fool to go along this far, but I’m not going to take the bait any more. I have far more important things to do. You are free to continue wasting your own time — which I’m sure is worth far less than mine.

Sigh... how the writers pertain has been mentioned ad nauseam in this thread. You've been too busy cutting and pasting your tired drivel to notice.

You haven't proved anything "irrefutably" or otherwise. The best "argument" you've come up with so far is a cut and pasted passage from Goebbels(which doesn't prove what you think it does, but given you're too dumb to even figure out the basics of the discussion that's not surprising) and some handwaving about Stalin.

Fundamentally you don't have the critical thinking and research skills to make an informed opinion on *anything* related to politics, much less the nuances of liberal dogma like socialism and how it relates to fascism.

[RussP]

Do you have a job? I’m just curious about what someone like you could possibly do for a living, other than perhaps sweeping floors.

[ketsu]

Do you have a job? I’m just curious about what someone like you could possibly do for a living, other than perhaps sweeping floors.

Don't worry snoogums, as long as morons like you can have a job as an "aerospace engineer" I'll remain gainfully employed.

I take it your new debating "tactic" is an indication of your abject surrender? Not that I expect you to learn anything, but just checking.

[RussP]

That’s exactly what I thought. You’re too embarrassed to tell me what you do for a living.

As for “morons like me,” that’s about as accurate as your knowledge of Nazism. It so happens that I was in the top 1% on the math section of the Graduate Records Exam when I took it some 25 years ago. That’s the exam taken by engineering graduates to get into graduate school. I suppose I can think logically when I try really hard. eh. Oh, and I was in the top 12% on verbal.

I guess I’m not just your ordinary “moron,” eh?

And I’m not embarrassed about my occupation either, loser.

[ketsu]

That’s exactly what I thought. You’re too embarrassed to tell me what you do for a living.

As for “morons like me,” that’s about as accurate as your knowledge of Nazism. It so happens that I was in the top 1% on the math section of the Graduate Records Exam when I took it some 25 years ago. That’s the exam taken by engineering graduates to get into graduate school. I suppose I can think logically when I try really hard. eh. Oh, and I was in the top 12% on verbal.

I guess I’m not just your ordinary “moron,” eh?

And I’m not embarrassed about my occupation either, loser.

Snoogums, I don't have to prove anything to you. You're already melting down and grasping for something, anything, to validate that you're not a moron. Here's a hint, you are.

BTW I don't know about the GRE 25 years ago, but I seem to recall the GRE had an *analytical reasoning* section. For some reason you don't mention that. I wonder why? Although your verbal is bad enough.

[RussP]

I’m normally a pretty nice guy, so I feel bad about having to put you in your place, little guy. But I simply cannot tolerate the sheer ignorance you are promulgating here. You need to learn a hard lesson.

The Nazis weren’t left-wing socialists, my ass. As Tom Wolfe said, that is THE great hoax of the century. And it has probably hurt conservatism more than anything. Pull your head out of your rear end long enough to listen to Goldberg’s talk in CSPAN, little guy.

I’m actually starting to think that you are a socialist yourself, and I suspect you are bitter about the fact that you don’t think the free market adequately recognizes your monumental intellectual abilities. It must be hard to be have to do menial work for a living when you’re a genius.

Well, you have my sympathies, but as I said you need to learn a hard lesson in humility, you pathetic loser.

How much did you say you make per year, loser?

Ohhhh... golly, I can’t wait to hear this one!

Are you still there, loser?

[ketsu]

I’m normally a pretty nice guy, so I feel bad about having to put you in your place, little guy. But I simply cannot tolerate the sheer ignorance you are promulgating here. You need to learn a hard lesson.

The Nazis weren’t left-wing socialists, my ass. As Tom Wolfe said, that is THE great hoax of the century. And it has probably hurt conservatism more than anything. Pull your head out of your rear end long enough to listen to Goldberg’s talk in CSPAN, little guy.

I’m actually starting to think that you are a socialist yourself, and I suspect you are bitter about the fact that you don’t think the free market adequately recognizes your monumental intellectual abilities. It must be hard to be have to do menial work for a living when you’re a genius.

Well, you have my sympathies, but as I said you need to learn a hard lesson in humility, you pathetic loser.

How much did you say you make per year, loser?

Ohhhh... golly, I can’t wait to hear this one!

Are you still there, loser?

Heh... I'd say we're reaching defcon 1 meltdown levels now.

You don't *get it*. You lost as soon as you started melting down. I don't have to prove anything. You've already admitted that you're ignorant and unwilling to do anything to assuage your ignorance.

You then compounded your failure by throwing a tantrum about how you existed "in reality" and as an "aerospace engineer" you were somehow more special than the rest of us bumpkins. When that didn't work you tried showing off your GRE score to see if I might validate you that way(BTW most of my Chinese friends beat your verbal score; beaten by an ESL student, ouch). Now that none of your "arguments"(i.e. attempts to feel good about yourself) have worked you've resorted to the final wheeze of internet losers everywhere, "I make more money than you". Classy.

Don't worry snoogums, I'm sure mummy and daddy still love you.

[RussP]

How much was that again?!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

You make how much per year?!!!

What was that you do for a living again, genius? You sweep floors where, again? Oh, ya ya, I’m sorry, it’s a noble line of work. I don’t mean to belittle janitors. They’re very important people. Forgive me for my arrogance. I just can’t help myself when I’m dealing with such a pathetic loser.

Don’t worry, if Hillary gets elected we’ll start moving toward socialism, and she will make things fair for poor unappreciated people like you.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

[ketsu]

How much was that again?!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

You make how much per year?!!!

What was that you do for a living again, genius? You sweep floors where, again? Oh, ya ya, I’m sorry, it’s a noble line of work. I don’t mean to belittle janitors. They’re very important people. Forgive me for my arrogance. I just can’t help myself when I’m dealing with such a pathetic loser.

Don’t worry, if Hillary gets elected we’ll start moving toward socialism, and she will make things fair for poor unappreciated people like you.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

Game. Set. Match.

You lose.

[RussP]

OK, I’m going whack you over the head with another clue-bat, Mr. nobody. The following quote is from a rather obsure historical figure. Some think he was an authority on Nazism, but others dispute that. Let’s see if you can guess who wrote it.

“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” —Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

Hey, come to think of it, this guy might have been able to increase your income to the level you really deserve. I suggest you support his modern ideological heirs.

Oh, that’ right. You do already.

[RussP]

Whoops, I meant to take Hitler’s name off the quote. Well, you don’t need to guess who said it.

[ketsu]

Whoops, I meant to take Hitler’s name off the quote. Well, you don’t need to guess who said it.

LOL... I've seen chickens run around with their heads off, but you take the cake.

[RussP]

Keep those floors and toilets clean, Mr. Nobody. And don’t feel bad about it. It’s a noble undertaking — even for an intellectual colossus like yourself.

[ketsu]

Keep those floors and toilets clean, Mr. Nobody. And don’t feel bad about it. It’s a noble undertaking — even for an intellectual colossus like yourself.

LOL... is this your new broken record now that you've figured out your "Socialism = Fascism" meme isn't going to work?

[RussP]

“LOL... is this your new broken record now that you’ve figured out your “Socialism = Fascism” meme isn’t going to work?”

I never said “Socialism = Fascism.” I said fascists are socialists, but socialists aren’t necessarily fascists.

I realize that’s complicated, but let me try to explain the concept in terms you can understand: a toilet is something that needs to be cleaned, but not everything that needs to be cleaned is a toilet. As you know, floors need to be cleaned too.

Oh, and keep up the good work on that job of yours, eh. Don’t let anyone tell you its menial work.

[ketsu]

I never said “Socialism = Fascism.” I said fascists are socialists, but socialists aren’t necessarily fascists.

I realize that’s complicated, but let me try to explain the concept in terms you can understand: a toilet is something that needs to be cleaned, but not everything that needs to be cleaned is a toilet. As you know, floors need to be cleaned too.

Oh, and keep up the good work on that job of yours, eh. Don’t let anyone tell you its menial work.

You are capable of learning! It took you an entire thread but you learned the difference between a "is a" and "kind of" relationship! Congratulations.

[RussP]

“You are capable of learning! It took you an entire thread but you learned the difference between a “is a” and “kind of” relationship! Congratulations.”

And you still haven’t learned it.

Hey, dude, I make $147,500 per year as an aerospace R&D engineer — and I earn every bit of it and then some. That’s a fact. What do you do for a living, and how much do you make?

I really want to know what kind of loser I am dealing with here. Are you even an adult? Please don’t tell me I’ve been wasting my time here with a smart-ass kid!

[ketsu]

And you still haven’t learned it.

Hey, dude, I make $147,500 per year as an aerospace R&D engineer — and I earn every bit of it and then some. That’s a fact. What do you do for a living, and how much do you make?

I really want to know what kind of loser I am dealing with here. Are you even an adult? Please don’t tell me I’ve been wasting my time here with a smart-ass kid!

LOL... the meltdown continues apace I see. Sorry "dude" pardon me if I don't feel awe at your "big money". You know with my "janitor's" wages and all. Don't worry I'll stay and let you slobber your real(or imaginary) PI all over FR. While you're at it, why don't you post your SSN and DOB too?