Posted on 12/24/2007 7:55:05 AM PST by Alex Murphy
WASHINGTON — Mike Huckabee, one of the most conservative Republicans in the 2008 presidential race, has embraced one of the most radical ideas on the campaign trail: a plan to abolish all federal income and payroll taxes and replace them with a single 23% national sales tax.
The idea -- dubbed the "fair tax" by proponents -- has been a political asset for Huckabee; its well-organized backers have helped catapult him from the back of the presidential pack to its top tier.
Sales tax proponents have tapped into seething voter hostility toward the Internal Revenue Service to become a below-the-radar political force, popping up at campaign events and candidate forums in Iowa and elsewhere.
The efforts on Huckabee's behalf by sales tax advocates helped spur his surprise second-place showing in an August Iowa straw poll -- the breakthrough that marked the beginning of his rise in the state and nationwide.
He is the only major presidential candidate to make the idea central to his campaign. "The first thing I'd love to do as president: Put a 'going out of business' sign on the Internal Revenue Service," he said at one debate.
Some wonder, however, whether his embrace of the plan eventually could turn into a liability.
The sales tax proposal has been around for years but languished on the fringes of practical politics and policy. Tax professionals generally regard the idea as impractical, regressive and even "crackpot," as one critic puts it.
It has gone nowhere in Congress. The 2005 Presidential Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform soundly rejected the idea. And many politicians shy away from it because it is easy for opponents to portray it as a huge tax increase -- as Democrats did in a 2006 Senate race in South Carolina.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
What does Ron Paul say ??
Since you’re the one (presumably) who has proof of the tax evasion you mention, perhaps you should refer all your evidence to the IRS. When you do, be aware that they frequently check out the snitches for tax violations, too. You should really enjoy that.
It sounds to me like you just oppose Huckabee.
Probably no bill - tax or otherwise - addresses the concerns of everyone, but what are yours?
Lower prices, no tax on my income and a prebate. Such a deal!! LOL!
Doesn't matter? I already paid income tax on my saved money and now you want me to pay a sales tax too?
Latest video: Crunch Time In Iowa
http://fredfile.fred08.com/blog/2007/video-crunch-time-in-iowa/
And from NumbersUSA as of December 21:
“Now that Rep. Tom Tancredo has dropped out of the race, only two candidates (THOMPSON & HUNTER) are left who have vigorous and thorough enough opposition to amnesty to warrant an EXCELLENT rating.”
GO FRED! :)
A crack smoking FairTaxer!
Since you’re the one (presumably) who has proof of the tax evasion you mention
You didn't know there was tax evasion before you saw my post?
It sounds to me like you just oppose Huckabee.
Let's see, he's a liberal tax raiser. Yes, I oppose Huckabee.
Keep in mind too that some number of those under the present tax system are missing (from the standpoint of tax payments) from contributions to even payroll taxes. I think it's less of a cut and dried system than you seem to believe.
Since I’m only 7, please tell me about it.
The key word was, I think, “roughly”.
In fact you might very well have those amounts included in your pay - then again you might not. I’d think it depends on your work situation (and the “roughly” still applies in any event).
“It’s probably true that sans entitlements the FairTax rate could drop probably a good bit lower ...”
There’s no need to guess. If the FairTax only needed to replace the Income Taxes it would have needed to bring in only $1.3T revenue in 2006 out of total FairTaxable spending of $12T. So 12% more than covers it if you keep entitlements out of it and don’t have any Prebate.
“To think that it would mean an automatic, unending upward spiral in the single tax rate, though, doesn’t seem reasonable to me since it would mean that each taxpayer would be encouraging his congressman to increase his own tax rate - an unlikely scenario.”
It’s all about the number of voters. Under the FairTax, a family of four earning $50K, spending $10K on used vehicles or education, and $14K on a mortgage would pay ZERO FairTax no matter how high the FairTax rate was. And they’d KNOW they wouldn’t pay any more no matter how high the rate was, because the Prebate will automatically increase to cover it.
How many voters are there like that ? How many other voters are close to that, such that a hike of 1% in the FairTax rate is only a small fraction of a hike in their overall tax rate ? The EFFECTIVE tax rate for a family of four with a $100K income that saves $10K, spends $10K on used vehicles and has $20K in mortgage payments (leaving just $34K spending FairTaxable) would be 7.8% — and bumping the FairTax rate from 23% to 25% would only make their overall tax rate 8.5%. Do you really think they won’t vote themselves a bigger SS benefit or Medicare expansion when it is only going to cost them an extra $700 a year ? That extra 2% FairTax would bring in another $240B/yr and be enough to increase the average SS check by $6K a year ! Who wouldn’t vote to pay an extra $700/yr to get back an extra $6,000 ? I think there are undoubtedly a majority of voters out there like that, and if they really understood the FairTax and did their own numbers, the FairTax would pass pretty quick. The collapse of the country would follow very soon after that.
Any mechanism intended to “protect” the “poor” from taxes will inevitably lead to larger government. Especially, when “poor” includes families with $100K income.
The whole “regressive” argument with regard to SS taxes is bogus and ignores the fact that the lower the income, the bigger your SS benefit is compared to your working income and relative to your taxes paid. A “poor” worker will get an SS check that replaces 2/3rds of his working income. A “middle income” worker will get a check that replaces 1/2 of his working income. A “high earner” will get a check that replaces only 1/4 of his working income. So tell me again how “regressive” the SS tax is. Medicare is even worse, since a person earning a million bucks a year paid $30,000yr in Medicare tax but will get the exact same Medicare coverage as the poorest worker who paid only hundreds of dollars a year. The Medicare tax is HUGELY “progressive”, not “regressive” at all. We shouldn’t use the public’s ignorance of these facts as an excuse to avoid the issue. We should put out the effort required to educate people.
So, prices fall, take home pay rises and I get a prebate?It's good that you're beginning to grasp what will happen. Keep it up.
Either I get to keep the taxes currently withheld or I don't.
So, if I want to pay cash with my already taxed money for a house in the Florida Keys in order not to waste money on interest and maybe make a profit in 5 years, I can't do that because your Fair Tax would allow me to spend no more than what my saved money produced that year without being double taxed?
If the stock market tanks, like it did in 2000, and we all lose money in our investments, we should eat cat food for that year to avoid double taxation?
Three points:
1. If you can "easily" produce a guaranteed 10% plus return on my portfolios in the current economic climate, I will fire my current money managers and hire you right now. "Guaranteed" means that any shortfall comes out of your pocket into my pocket.
2. I have already paid hefty income taxes on MY saved wealth. Why should I desire to have you or The Gubbmint dictate to me that I must not spend it unless I want to get raped by your Fair Tax double taxation? What part of MY money do you people not understand?
3. Why should we savers be told that we cannot spend OUR already taxed money any way we please while you people pay off your credit card and home equity debts that you used to get goods without paying income taxes or sales taxes and then pay off with money that you never paid income tax on.
How about this? On any debt you have, The Gubbmint will charge you retroactive income taxes since you received goods by just swiping your VISA and, under the Fair Tax, you will then be charged a 23% sales tax when you pay off your VISA and home equity debt. That will make it "Fair". You will be in the same Double Taxation Boat we savers will be in and we can then tell YOU what you should have done with your finances.
3. Why don't you Fair Tax advocates come up with a plan that will not double tax those of us who haved saved serious money instead of telling us that we can't spend our own saved money without being taxed to an obscene degree while you people pay off your accumulated debts with tax free income?
I get it. It's magic! My paycheck increases, prices hold steady and I get a prebate. And....the Feds collect the same in taxes. It's magic!
Keep it up.
You too! You too!
And it’s not “his” (Huckabee’s) plan as you certainly know. Why misstate like that? Do you hope to fool the gullible? The FairTax originated long before Huckabee was on the scene (the FairTax in the mid-90s or so) and has never had anything to do with any single political candidate - including Huckabee.
But I don't get my withholding back, so it doesn't really remove my income tax, does it?Get real - you want a retroactive refunding of all income taxes ever paid?? Surely you're not really that dense. Look at it this way, then, at least the FairTax will keep you out of tax prison due to gaming the tax system as you claim to have been doing.
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