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To: fogofbobegabay

Jesus was an enlightened soul that transended the EGO and walked the earth over 2000 years ago.

The Gospels were written 60+ years after Jesus walked the earth. Not likely that others were able to recall the “words spoken” at such a late date.

Just wondering.


20 posted on 12/23/2007 4:15:50 PM PST by TNoldman
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To: TNoldman; Tennessee Nana; greyfoxx39; SkyPilot; Star Traveler; Colofornian; aMorePerfectUnion; ...
"The Gospels were written 60+ years after Jesus walked the earth. Not likely that others were able to recall the “words spoken” at such a late date."

Allow me to address your query, for you are operating on assertions now known to be in error because of extensive work done by credible Historians like Gary Habermas. Because of the Oral Tradition in Judaism, the ability to memorize at first hearing an entire speech was taught to children, and more specifically to young men who would be the 'record keepers' for the Rabbis they studied under. These 'scribes' served as a check for the memorized sayings and events of the Rabbi. Jesus was in the Rabbinical office when He walked and taught His disciples and performed the miracles witness to the Divinity within Him. Oral accounting of events and speeches was much more efficient and accurate than in our day, because in that day memorization was like learning to throw a ball or catch in our day ... proficiency was highly valued and was even important in business dealings!

Matthew was a tax collector and thus an able wirter of more than Hebrew, likely fluent also in Aramaic, Latin, and Greek. All of the Gospels were written by eyewitnesses or dictated to a writer by an eyewitness. Luke's Gospel to Theophilus was written after Luke undertook an extensive and detailed study of the events and sayings of Jesus and he likely had Mark and Matthew's accounts to which he could refer even at that date, within fifty years of the Resurrection! The oft cited Gospel of Thomas was rejected by the early Church Council at Nicea because it was written too late to have been an account dictated from the eyewitness! All of the included documents in the Canon were written prior to 100 AD.

If we take 30 AD to be the year of the Crucufuxion, Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus in 33 AD and went to speak with the disciples (Peter and James) within three years following his conversion, then again approx 15 years later (Peter, James, and John the beloved disciple), to check and make sure he was well within the growth and message of the Chruch and to bring an offering for the poor in Jerusalem.

The first written accounts were more likley penned within five to fifteen years of the Resurrection, and the doctrines and teachings of Jesus were circulating orally from within 40 days of the Resurrection, beginning at Pentecost in Jerusalem. The letters written by Paul were penned within ten years after the Resurrection and no more than thirty years after the Resurrection. Christian Church Fathers writing at the turn of 100 AD referenced the letters of Paul in more than 100 places! Given the means of ciculating these writings and the preciousness of these offerings, it is apparent that 60+ years is a gross exaggeration in span. Here is a quote from a Josh McDowell article:

William F. Albright, who in his day was the world's foremost biblical archaeologist, said: "We can already say emphatically that there is no longer any solid basis for dating any book of the New Testament after about A.D. 80, two full generations before the date between 130 and 150 given by the more radical New Testament critics of today."

Here are two links you might enjoy during the holiday celebrating the most important birth in HUman History:
Habermas on Council of Nicea and the canon established at Nicea: http://www.garyhabermas.com/video/refut_new_cont_theor_jes_b-6.wmv
http://www.garyhabermas.com/video/refut_new_cont_theor_jes_b-7.wmv

Do a google on Gary Habermas and enjoy the presentations on video available at his website.

27 posted on 12/23/2007 5:23:23 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: TNoldman

“Jesus was an enlightened soul that transended the EGO and walked the earth over 2000 years ago.”

Jesus is the Son of God, Lord and Savior, soon coming King, the Alpha and Omega, the beginnning and the end, Begotten not made, born of a virgin, the Word of God the Great Shepherd, the door of the sheepfold, the light, the I AM, our redeemer, Lord of Lords and King of Kings, Truth, The Prince of Peace, The Peace that passes understanding, The head of the Church, Immanuel, Wonderful counselor, etc

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Nothing about an enlightening soul (that?) transender the EGO or anything else...


47 posted on 12/23/2007 8:41:55 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: TNoldman
The Gospels were written 60+ years after Jesus walked the earth. Not likely that others were able to recall the “words spoken” at such a late date.

Because we have a 'modern' concept of memory, which is augmented by all KINDS of 'recordings' to back it up.

In a pre-literate society, the 'memory' portion of our brain is used quite differently than now.

60 posted on 12/24/2007 6:42:05 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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