I'll bet these guys are carrying Berettas
Posted on 12/17/2007 1:20:45 PM PST by JOAT
Why, then, would the church staff and responding police then cover up that fact? Nope, it's more l;ikely that they're taking care of *one of their own.*
Any bets that the church guards who refused to take on the shooter were off-duty or retired local cops?
I'll bet these guys are carrying Berettas
Matthew 14: 21 "And they that had eaten were about five thousand men, beside women and children."
It was more than 5,000.
Yet, you believe some non denominational pastor can effectively educated and shepherd 10,000 a week?
Certainly, because it is the Holy Spirit that does so through human beings or directly in the believer. Do you not believe that all believers are temples of the Holy Spirit, or is it that you believe the Holy Spirit is incapable of handling 10,000 people at once?
God incarnate himself did not attempt this, yet I am to believe you when you claim this is the way the truth and the light?
Fact is, we don't know how many people were there because only the men were counted. It could have been more than 10,000. Either way, it is sad you think Jesus would not have been capable of handling 10,000 people at once.
You continue to deny that preaching is teaching.
What I'm saying is biblical. Read 1 Corinthians 14 on the spiritual gifts. They are two separate gifts.
This is a fundamentally flawed and failed view.
The biblical view is fundamentally flawed and failed? Interesting.
Jesus could easily have quoted existing scriptures instead of teaching his word, yet he chose to teach, not mearly parrot.
Uh huh. What does that have to do with the fact that preaching and teaching are separate spiritual gifts?
You don’t have a pastor with 10,000 sheep, you have a CEO, and an accounts receivable.
Your opinion. Nothing in the bible supports that claim.
I find it interesting that you quote Chorinthians I, especially considering how much the focus is not to pay attention to the flamboyantness of the voice
Quote the verse from 1 Corinthians where it mentions flamboyantness of voice.
Megachurches are all about the flamboyance of the delivery
How many megachurches have you attended and for how long at each one to make this judgment?
Ah, I never said Jesus would not be capable of doing it, I said it is not recorded that he did... and sorry, I hate to break this to you... but your megachurch pastor AIN’T JESUS.. which has been my point all along, which you seem to keep ignoring. Oh, and just for the record, Jesus wasn’t in front of 5000 let alone more EVERY week.
Find me one Shepherd, single sole shepherd, manning 10,000 sheep in his field alone, and I’ll concede a megachurch pastor remotely can minister to 10,000 men.
Might want to go reread Chorinthians I, since you seem confused about Paul’s message regarding who and how the baptising is being done.
The holy spirit does not need spotlights and teleprompters and big screen tvs to deliver its message, Christ needed no such things either.
I am sorry, but you cannot minister effectively to one you do not know... if you don’t know their name you cannot call them your flock. You cannot know when one of your sheep has gone astray... you cannot go look for it when it is lost, you cannot celebrate should it return.
I have attended churches that have ranged from 50 members to thousands, and all sorts of levels in between, and there is no way a pastor/minister of a church whos membership is in the thousands remotely is doing the job as demonstrated by Christ or the Apostles themselves. They are nothing more than entertainers at that point when on stage, and CEOs when off.
The degrees of seperation or too far apart.
The last time I was working in that part of the world, one of my *sponsors* was a pretty sharp spook who had dealings with the Papal Guard on a very frequent basis. They were cross-trained on a wide variety of Italian, Swiss and NATO equipment, some of the US versions of which were informally supplied via diplomatic services.
Among their usual toys, then: the Beretta PM12 machinepistol, with their then-standard handgun the SIG P225, AKA the P6, which was more concealable and offered better accuracy and sights than the available Beretta handguns.It's my understanding that since then, the Beretta subguns have been replaced by the 5.56 SIG 551, both more accurate and offering better penetration against assassins in soft body armour.
First of all the responding police were outside at that particular time and the church staff probably still had their heads under the pew. But, who knows? You could be right.
What is “Chorinthians I”? Do you mean the entire first letter to the church at Corinth, namely I Corinthians? Or, do you mean the first chapter of one of the two letters to the church, namely either I Corinthians 1 or II Corinthians 1?
I agree. Why was he escorted out? What did he do?
Sounds like the man has pride issues, and maybe delusions of grandeur and mental instability, not something that’s easy for a church to deal with publicly.
You understand that there’s not just one pastor at New Life, but many. These pastors and elders and deacons personally interact with members of the church, and know them well.
Jesus had disciples to help him minister to his flock. Jesus didn’t directly “shepherd” 5,000 people — he delegated some of that responsibility to his disciples.
Similarly, in a large church, the senior pastor delegates/shares pastoral authority over those in his congregation.
It works now just the way it worked in Jesus’ day.
Only too well.
You said even God incarnate did not attempt to preach to 10,000 people at once. If all you meant by that is that he didn't do it, then you need to work on your sentence structure a bit.
but your megachurch pastor AIN’T JESUS which has been my point all along, which you seem to keep ignoring.
How disingenous of you. I never said it was. But the Holy Spirit is God, and He indwells every believer, no matter what church they go to. And we both know that your point all along hasn't been that the church isn't Jesus.
You might want to try being more honest in your posts.
Oh, and just for the record, Jesus wasn’t in front of 5000 let alone more EVERY week.
And?
Find me one Shepherd, single sole shepherd, manning 10,000 sheep in his field alone, and I’ll concede a megachurch pastor remotely can minister to 10,000 men.
Interesting that you keep leaving the Holy Spirit out of your 'equations'. Why is that? Do you not believe in the Holy Spirit?
Might want to go reread Chorinthians I, since you seem confused about Paul’s message regarding who and how the baptising is being done.
LOL What the heck does this have to do with anything? That doesn't change the fact that preaching and teaching are separate gifts.
The holy spirit does not need spotlights and teleprompters and big screen tvs to deliver its message, Christ needed no such things either.
So you are proposing that no pastor ever use audio/visual equipment, 'props' or notes of any kind? Is that REALLY what you are saying?
I am sorry, but you cannot minister effectively to one you do not know.
Ministering and preaching are two different things. "Ministering" includes a multitude of things, and is effectively done by elders, mentors, bible study and Sunday School teachers and so forth. And again, if you need 'ministering' to and aren't getting it, ask for it. Even if a pastor knows you, he is going to need for you to tell him what you need from him. They aren't mind readers.
I have attended churches that have ranged from 50 members to thousands, and all sorts of levels in between, and there is no way a pastor/minister of a church whos membership is in the thousands remotely is doing the job as demonstrated by Christ or the Apostles themselves.
Of course not. You are too lazy. You expect people to read your mind and force feed spiritual growth to you.
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