Posted on 12/12/2007 10:18:51 AM PST by tcrlaf
DENVER, Colorado (AFP) — The gunman responsible for shootings at two religious centers in Colorado warned of his plans for the rampage in anti-Christian rants posted on the Internet, it was reported Tuesday.
Matthew Murray, who shot dead four people in separate attacks on a missionary training center and mega-church on Sunday, published more than a dozen writings online prior to his shooting spree, KUSA TV reported in Denver.
"You Christians brought this on yourselves," Murray reportedly wrote on a Web site for people who have left Pentecostal and fundamentalist religious organizations, shortly before the second of his two attacks.
"I'm coming for EVERYONE soon and I WILL be armed to the @#%$ teeth and I WILL shoot to kill. ... God, I can't wait till I can kill you people. Feel no remorse, no sense of shame, I don't care if I live or die in the shoot-out.
"All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you ... as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world."
KUSA reported that the wording of Murray's rant mirrored language used by one of the Columbine High School gunmen, Eric Harris, before the 1999 massacre that left 12 students and a teacher dead.
Meanwhile it emerged Tuesday that Murray had killed himself following the shootings, rather than being shot dead by a security guard at the New Life evangelical church as had been previously thought.
A Colorado Springs police spokesman said the investigation by El Paso County Coroner's Office showed that Murray died from a "self-inflicted gunshot wound" following the rampage.
Murray was armed with two handguns, an assault rifle, around 1,000 rounds of ammunition and several smoke grenades as he began his assault on the New Life church, which was packed with around 7,000 worshippers.
In other postings made on the day of the shootings, Murray says goodbye to people he has corresponded with in recent months.
"You guys were awesome. It's time for me to head out and teach these (expletive) a lesson," he wrote.
"Thanks for listening and all ... even though even many of you ex-Pentecostals don't understand ...... (sic) See you all on the other side, we're leaving this nightmare behind to a better place."
The website address was not published by KUSA TV, which reported that Murray's writings were removed on Monday.
It emerged on Monday that Murray had been expelled five years ago from a program run by the Youth With a Mission training center in the Denver suburb of Arvada, the scene of his first attack where two workers were shot dead.
Police said on Monday forensic evidence found at the two shooting scenes showed both attacks were carried out by Murray acting alone.
This kid was a deranged loser who was homeschooled in a Christian home. The site he posted onto was not anti-Christian, it was anti-Charismatic and anti-Pentecostal Christians. While I have no love for extreme Charismaniacs, this kids problem was that he was a loser with no future. He needed a mentor or a coach and not a counsellor or a pyschologist.
The day after the shootings they were still unwilling to confirm any link between the events. As if it was 2 different shooters or perhaps it was just coincidence that both targets were of a religious nature.
“This site was a anti christian site.”
No it ISN’T.
“I am wondering if there are posts from people that basically egged this guy on to kill.”
That sure would make your conspiratorial delusions more interesting, now wouldn’t it?
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!
bookmark
I don’t know that a mentor or coach could have gone very far with him but it would have been much better than what he got.
He desperately needed someone to come along-side of him and hold him close warmly when needed and slowly, gradually begin to kick his butt when needed.
Trouble is, given his self-reported early experiences with mommy dearest . . . he would have been unlikely to have maintained a relationship with anyone less than perfect . . . and that FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE . . . which rather rules out . . . uhhhh . . . everyone.
He was in an endless loop of catch-22’s partly of his own making in his twisted thinking . . . and partly from the context he was evidently ‘mangled’ in. Part of that was due to his hypersensitivity and brightness.
One can easily imagine that his mom lived in a similar bunch of catch-22’s of fear and anxiety about not raising her son perfectly . . . which tends to lead to ever escalating obsessions to be ever more watchful, ever more strict, ever more hovering . . . which would have driven most anyone around the bend.
The site DID AND DOES post/host a LOT of very hostile posts TO CHITSIANITY IN GENERAL and particularly against Pentecostals/charismatics. His rants were also somewhat against Christianity in general.
Are you the old Fiero of years ago hereon???
Yes, the site is significantly anti-Christian even if only due to the postings rather rampantly so. The hostility is NOT limited to Pentecostals/Charismatics.
On October 23, 1990, an Oregon jury awarded a $12.5 million judgment against Tom Metzger and his son, John, for their role in inciting neo-Nazi skinheads to murder Mulugeta Seraw, an Ethiopian immigrant.
The neo-Nazi skinheads definitely were not choir boys before being exposed to Metzger's message. They were already who they were.
Though the Metzgers, leaders of White Aryan Resistance (WAR), did not participate in the killing, Morris Dees of the SPLC contended that WAR's message of racial hatred was what motivated the attackers. The jury agreed. The SPLC won the lawsuit against Metzger even though the neo-Nazi skinheads were not members of WAR but had been exposed to WAR's violent messages.
So whose messages influenced this murderer?
Of course the SPLC won't go after Christian haters but there must be an organization willing to use the courts as the SPLC does.
Because they aren’t athiests. I firmly believe there are no athiests. The more they talk, the more you talk to them, the more you actually find out they really hate God, versus not believing in him. Believe me, I’ve had some conversations.
Indeed.
My PhD research included atheists and agnostics as well as intense Christian groups.
I was shocked one day to receive the leading ATHEIST journal and on reading it
to be brazenly confronted with the fact that
substituting a few key words and phrases in not that many places . . .
it would have read 100% like a Pentecostal journal.
I was truly shocked.
Many times . . . like a horse-shoe . . . the extremes aremore similar than either extreme is to the middle.
Reminds me of the lukewarm warning in Scripture.
Better to be hot or cold.
Extreme pentacostalism becomes spiritism and gnosticism very quickly. The bible tends to be left behind, or, used to support the experiences they have. 300+ years ago, this was called immediate (minus a mediator) revelation--and severely warned against. When people say its what the bible says AND what God says to them personally--without a mediator--that is authoritative...it is a slippery slope.
In Martin Luther's day, the most radical of the protestants (not under Luther's control) became a violent cult, took over the city of Muenster in Germany, as their leader proclaimed himself the messiah. Various "prophets" joined them, and they called the city "The New Jerusalem." They initiated a communist type system, and made polygamy their way of life. This didn't last long--as real Protestants and Catholics joined together to re-take the city from the fanatics. Fanaticism of all kinds takes control away from God and the Bible, and justifying their ends, more than their means--they violate both.
One wonders where God was in and amongst the endless loops...
How does this differ in substance from "plowboy" interpretation of Scripture?
I think that is ugly.
I think that is ugly.
Not that I agree with your characterization, but when WOULD you be receptive to carrying on such a discussion?
It's very easy to be pig-headed when there is no empirical data to restrain endless abstractions.
I laughed when I read your satirical post. While the base subject is not humorous, the marked contrast in reactions from other “religions” is stunning.
Again, no shotgun.
Is El Paso County Sheriff and Coroner's office ever going to come clean with the complete details of this?
Why did they not call the police and ask for a couple extra squad cars outside that morning? I'm guessing the police would have responded even if they had to change their routine in light of what had happened at Arvada; maybe they hadn't connected the loose ties between the two groups yet, but New Life evidently knew there were some.
A police presence in the parking lot might have saved the two sisters and the wounding of their father or another maelstrom erupted, hard to say. He could have scrapped his plans and looked for victims elsewhere, probable because he was so determined, but it could have bought some time because the Feds and cops were by now pretty hot on his trail.
I don't have a problem with the church's security plan, but I think they should have asked for extra help. It is hard to believe they didn't consider it.
I think the main reason he turned to the dark side was that he believed in something, but had so much rage that he found an outlet where his pent-up emotions resonated. I don't see him being an atheist, just terribly confused, even though until he started divulging his final plans, things he wrote sound a lot like what a lot of kids write on their blogs (not that I have read that many, but there is a pervasive darkness among so many of our young).
***This site was a anti christian site.I am wondering if there are posts from people that basically egged this guy on to kill.***
A DU forum?
He used Forte as a newsreader and so far his IP address doesn't show up on any of the headers so far, must be an anonymous remailer or munged. Maybe you will be interested. Almost hate to post this, but it is new info.
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