Huckabee asks if Mormons believe Jesus, devil are brothers

AP ^ | December 12, 2007

[Tlaloc]

Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee, an ordained Southern Baptist minister, asks in an upcoming article, "Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?"

The article, to be published in Sunday's New York Times Magazine, says Huckabee asked the question after saying he believes Mormonism is a religion but doesn't know much about it. His rival Mitt Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, is a member of the Mormon church, which is known officially as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The authoritative Encyclopedia of Mormonism, published in 1992, does not refer to Jesus and Satan as brothers. It speaks of Jesus as the son of God and of Satan as a fallen angel, which is a Biblical account.

A spokeswoman for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said Huckabee's question is usually raised by those who wish to smear the Mormon faith rather than clarify doctrine.

"We believe, as other Christians believe and as Paul wrote, that God is the father of all," said the spokeswoman, Kim Farah. "That means that all beings were created by God and are his spirit children. Christ, on the other hand, was the only begotten in the flesh and we worship him as the son of God and the savior of mankind. Satan is the exact opposite of who Christ is and what he stands for."

Romney did not respond to a request for comment.

Earlier this month in Iowa, Huckabee wouldn't say whether he thought Mormonism — rival Romney's religion — was a cult.

"I'm just not going to go off into evaluating other people's doctrines and faiths. I think that is absolutely not a role for a president," the former Arkansas governor said.

[trisham]

Why isn’t he talking about our men in TWO WAR THEATERS who are being killed by ISLAMIC cultists?????????

***************

Because he thinks he can win the presidency easier this way. He's sleazy.

[Colofornian]

These threads on Romney and Huckabee, among many other threads on many other topics, topics not even remotely a discussion of religion...

While you might be on target on some other threads, you are way, way, off-base on this thread. In fact you are so mistaken I will call it a lie. First of all the story itself is about Romney's Mormon belief AND about Huckabee's question about this belief. What? Did you not read the article? Did you skip it & just go directly to the thread responses?

Secondly, just about all of the first 200 responses to this were from folks provoked by Huckabee raising this question (from the let's keep religion-out-of-politics crowd), NOT from folks who challenge Mormonism or have concerns about Romney's belief system!!!

It seems to me that if these "let's keep religion-out-of-politics crowd" thought that discussing religion in a political race was an unworthy venture, many more of them would have veered away from this thread. But that wasn't the case, now was it?

If these folks, or if you, didn't want to discuss a religious issue when it happens to dovetail into politics (you know you can't keep these things hermetically sealed no matter how much some folks sovereignly try), then what are you doing here on this particular thread?

(There's threads galore about Huckabee that don't mention religion.)

Can we (and all the candidates) stick to the real issues in this election...

So your personal litmus test of what constitutes "real" issues are those that you have a vision for (based on your comment "when we lose sight")...whereas these other issues you mentioned that are discussed are what? less than "real?" False issues (false being the opposite of "real?")

While you come across as trying to be "tolerant" of distinctive opinions ("you will get no argument from me" and "I support your right to believe as you choose and your freedom to express it" and "that is their right to follow their heart and conscience"), it's quite clear that those who haven't followed your vision of what's relevant and what's not have "degenerated" into either false issues or irrelevency.

And so, because you can't just let one Huckabee thread discuss religious points, you advocate a "separate but equal" approach & sovereignly come along & dictate: "Nope, these issues aren't relevant. Dump it into the religious trash section where it belongs"

[MHT]

I hope he talks himself into losing. Who made him St. Peter anyway? I find some of the tenets of Mormonism strange, but I sure wouldn't want to offend voters in Utah, Idaho, Montana, Nevada with some dumb-dumb comment about their religion. If he couldn't understand the theology, he should just compliment the outward manifestation of their faith demonstrated by their patriotic and family-oriented upstanding behavior.

He might be dumber than he looks (which is pretty bad when you look like Gomer Pyle's first-cousin!).

[trisham]

In case you haven’t figured it out, I’ve had a wee bit o’ yeast pee myself tonight.

****************

LOL!

[tioga]

Go back and read through the posts. Huckabee was asking a serious question and from my read of the discussion on the thread it was true. Huckabee is not my choice for president due to his positions on illegal immigration, but he is being honest and sincere - and truthful. The MSM intends to confound the issue till we are all at each others’ throats. I especially love the video (link in post 307) someone posted of a Mormon teaching NEVER to answer questions......”give them milk not meat” — which is exactly what I get when I engage with a Mormon on these threads.

[greyfoxx39]

And while you’re at it, try to actually quote something rather than misquoting.

Rather interesting screen name you have...NEO-Danite...

“We have a company of Danites in these times, to put to right physically that which is not right, and to cleanse the Church of very great evils which hath hitherto existed among us inasmuch as they cannot be put to right by teachings & persuasions.”

-    Joseph Smith diary, Missouri Journal, 1838, March to September, under July 27, 1838; also Dean Jessee, ed., The Papers of Joseph Smith, 1992, v. 2, p. 262 (this quote is crossed out in this book); also in Faulring, An American Prophet’s Record, p. 198

“I sent [Orrin] Rockwell [leader of the Danites] to kill Boggs, but he missed him, it was a failure; he wounded him instead of sending him to Hell.”

-    Joseph Smith, Jr. as quoted by William Law in a statement on July 31, 1887, in William Law: Biographical Essay, Nauvoo Diary, Correspondence, Interview, 1994, pp. 166-117

 

The Danites were a secretive group of Mormons organized and apparently abolished in the same year, 1838. They were founded by a man, Sampson Avard, who was striving to use the Church as a tool for power. Members were bound by oaths of secrecy to support what appeared to be a good cause, the defense of the Church in a time of mob persecution, but ultimately Avard sought to manipulate the Danites into a tool for retribution and violence. While much has been written about the Danites, it appears that they played a relatively minor role and their secret purposes were opposed once they were exposed to Joseph Smith. On the other hand, Joseph supported Avard's group for their openly stated purpose of helping to defend the Saints, and may have erred in not recognizing the dangers inherent in such an organization or the threat posed by the ambitious Avard.

Joseph was not the mastermind behind the Danites, but he gave them at least partial support initially, and his encouragement of militant action to defend the Saints may have made it easier for Avard and his Danites to flourish.

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Danites.shtml#danites

 

[Colofornian]

I think you fit into the (b) category of my post #218.

That post by the way, shows that the (b) folks just don't know Mormon beliefs and are repulsed by thinking anyone would actually believe it (so the post confirms the reality of that belief).

The (a) folks, BTW, are the ones who think that they have the audacity to comment on religion in a negative way--the putdowns toward faith concerns and other-dimensionly commitments that these are all "irrelevant to politics," "it doesn't belong in politics," you name it...but if any candidate happens to do what they just did in our free expression society...ooo, ooo, ooo..."How dare you comment on religion in a negative manner, Huckabee."

"WE have every right to do that, but shame, shame, shame on you for doin' that!"

[restornu]

Chronology or timeline is so critcal many times how we process our thinking!

Many like to take a statement out of context for the sensation of it knowing fullwell of the perception it will give!

*****

Here we are reading about pre earth or premortal time.

Are we not all God’s Children and if so did not Lucifer who sang among The Morning Stars who also the one whoFell from Heaven and now no longer part of Heavenly Father children!

Job
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

This peroid is the time those children have received body after premortal time.

Rom. 8: 16-17 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

It is amazing how the same critics have been shown scripture and continue this misrepresentation of that quote!

Remember before Lucifer/Satan fell from heaven he was not always or originally an outcast!

Here the angels are remembering about premortal times when one of the great ones fell (Lucifer became Satan) due to pride!

Isaiah 14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

****

Revealtion 12:7-13
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1938128/posts?page=163#163

[Colofornian]

Who made him St. Peter anyway?

Good question. Who made you St. Peter over Huckabee anyway?

I find some of the tenets of Mormonism strange, but I sure wouldn't want to offend voters in Utah, Idaho, Montana, Nevada with some dumb-dumb comment about their religion. If he couldn't understand the theology, he should just compliment the outward manifestation of their faith demonstrated by their patriotic and family-oriented upstanding behavior.

I guess you also fall into the "ignorant" category. (See my (b) category of posters on post #218). It documents that LDS do believe this)

[AppyPappy]

Lucifer was an angel

Jesus was not an Angel. They cannot be brothers.

[gracesdad]

“Is the republican party going to render every candidate irrelevant by sniping each other while the rats (and Dopra) cruise to the white house.”

It certainly appears that way.

[dmw]

“Mike Huckabee, you are a DISGRACE. I’m no Mormon, but that is sick thinking for someone that wants to be our president. I am thoroughly disgusted.”

I’m confused. The Mormons really do believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers, so why are you disgusted at Huckabee for saying something that is factual? All you need to do is google “Jesus, Satan, Mormon” and you will find tons of information that verifies this. Why is Huckabee being chastised for speaking the truth? What’s so disgusting about speaking the truth about the Mormon religion? Why would Mormons be offended at their own beliefs? Like I said, I’m confused.

For the record, I am not a Huckabee or a Romney supporter.

[JSDude1]

I am not morally superior (as I am a sinner like everyone else).

Christians do not feel “morally superior”, fyi.

[twntaipan]

You hit the nail on the head. Most of the people here with a knee-jerk reaction to this question by Huckabee haven’t got a clue about Mormonism.

[greyfoxx39]

Very good!

[JSDude1]

I really wish (theologically, evangelistically) I could find out the truth about what Josephy Smith, Brigham Young actually said..and if the Mormon leaders have repudidated any of those beliefs, what their official theological beliefs are today (for evangelical purposes to-draw theological debate, and wittnessing), NOT for the Presidential Race to bbq a certain candidate..

[Colofornian]

My objection now is that the Mormons have been “tamed.” or “christianized,”so that their morality, their deportment is now consistent with the public peace. I find it ironical that they stand for a morality that is more Christian than that of many main-line Christian churches.

Well, you might be right...provided that the only or primary purpose of "religion" was to "tame" folks. (Hint: It's not)

The Bible doesn't mention "religion" very often & when it does, it links back to the Church helping the poor & orphans (book of James). Just as we learn character in a social reality (families, churches, schools, communities, and prayer, etc.), the Bible points out that it's the social reality of a relationship with the true Jesus Christ that yields both eternal life (John 17:3) and character/morality (Galatians, for example talks about the fruit of the spirit).

My bottom-line: It really doesn't matter if we have outwardly "moral" folks like the New Testament Pharisees. Jesus called them a "brood of vipers" whose cups were clean on the outside but were inwardly filthy...he called them children of the devil in John 8. Jesus was more concerned about the inside of the cup. And when you check the inside of the cup in places like Utah, you find that state is consistently in the top 10 for suicide rates in the nation...and Mentalhealth.net just named the state #1 of all states for depression.

[KC_Conspirator]

Keep it up boys and we can all bend over for Hillary or Obama.

Precisely.

[P-Marlowe]

Thank you. I knew all this stuff about Jesus being a "spirit child" and that He and Lucifer were brothers was a bunch of junk. Thank you for clarifying it.

Appy, if that is the conclusion you drew from sevanbak's post then you were misled. The fact is that Mormons teach that Satan and Jesus were both "spirit children" of the Heavenly Father. They were spirit brothers.

The whole scheme of Mormon beliefs is so convoluted, you get lost trying to wade through it. But suffice it to say that Mormons believe that Jesus began his existence as a spirit child of the Heavenly Father, just like you and me and Satan, and then somewhere along the line was exalted to the position of Diety and his spirit brother Satan was cast out of heaven for rebelling against the Plan of Salvation which was proposed by Jesus voted upon by the Heavenly Council in the premortal existence.

It ain't a bunch of junk. You were the victim of a classic LDS misdirection by sevenbak. Post 330 (from colorcountry) is from the official website of the LDS Church. The bottom line is that the Mormons belive that Jesus was not God from all eternity, but became a God, a member of the Godhead, at some point after his spiritual birth in the pre-existence.

[greyfoxx39]

I am in no way a Romney fan, but if Huckabee wants to sling mud or at least score some points, he would better served if it at least had a tangental connection to the issues at hand.

So, do you think it was OK for Romney to make a huge deal of his "religion" speech from the library of George H.W. Bush and enjoy the resulting publicity for days afterward?

Let us all not forget just WHO opened this particular door in hopes of shoring up his sinking poll numbers in Iowa and Huck's rising poll numbers there.