Posted on 12/09/2007 7:31:08 PM PST by fallingwater
SALT LAKE CITY — When it comes to the big theological questions about God, Mormons and evangelical Christians will have to agree to disagree, a Mormon church authority said Wednesday.
"They're locked into the Nicene Creed . . . We're locked into the restoration and the experiences of Joseph Smith," said Elder M. Russell Ballard, a senior leader of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. "And that will undoubtedly be an issue until God himself comes."
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, etc. any truth. Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world, and treasure them up, or we will not come out good “Mormons.” Joseph Smith, D.H.C. vol. 5, p. 517. 1844
For any church, country, nation, or other group to believe that it is the only people in whom God is interested, or that it has special merit because of color, race, or belief, that they are inherently superior and loved by God, without regard to the lives they live, is not only a great and dangerous fallacy, but is a continuing barrier to peace. . . . Let us steadfastly avoid such demoralizing arrogance. The most important problems facing us in working on a long range program for peace is a tolerant and sympathetic understanding between races and creeds.
Hugh B. Brown, LDS Conference, April 1966.
I do not believe that three-hundred-fifty millions of people that live in China in a state of heathen darkness are created to live in this state, and be damned because they do not have the right religion. I do not believe that all the nations that worship various kinds of idols, in different parts of the earth, and knowing nothing about the true God, will be consigned to be burned in fire hereafter, because they know no better than to worship as they do. . . . I was going to say I am not a Universalist, but I am, and I am also a Presbyterian, and a Roman Catholic, and a Methodist. In short, I believe in every true principle that is embodied in any person or sect, and reject the false. If there is any truth in heaven, earth, or hell, I want to embrace it. I care not what shape it comes to me, who brings it, or who believes it, whether it is popular or unpopular.
John Taylor (third President of the Church)
Salt Lake City, Utah
1853
This is the Mormon theory of Gods revelation to the children of men. While The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is established for the instruction of men; and is one of God’s instrumentalities in making known the truth, yet he is not limited to that institution for such purposes, neither in time nor place. God raises up wise men and prophets here and there among all the children of men, of their own tongue and nationality, speaking to them through means that they can comprehend; not always giving a fullness of truth such as may be found in the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ; but always giving that measure of truth that the people are prepared to receive. Mormonism holds, then, that all the great teachers are servants of God; among all nations, and in all ages. They are inspired men, appointed to instruct God’s children according to the conditions in the midst of which he finds them. . . Confucius, , , ,Buddha, . . . the sages of Greece and Rome, . . . the reformers of early Protestant times. . . .
B. H. Roberts.
Christians know that Christians are those who believe in one God in three persons, who are saved through their faith in Jesus Christ, and His blood atonement for them on the cross, and nothing more. Because of Him, and their faith in Him, they are baptized and do good works, which are as filthy rags, save His infinite grace.
Thanks for proving my point.
Don’t they all?
Absolutely not. No Protestant church makes any such claim.
In short, my views are based on ample experience. I don’t have bad feelings about most Mormons, but those in positions of power tend to confuse that power with God given rights that can become quite nasty. And what would your opinions be based on???”
My opinions are those of a normal rational mind, not of someone with an axe to grind and a political agenda.
“Two can play the same game.
(Yeah, we know)”
Your reply was that of a child. Come up with your own lines rather than cloning mine. Originality is not your forte.
The filty rags terminology doesn’t come from me, it comes from the Bible:
“But we are all like an unclean thing, and all of our righteousnesses are like filthy rags” (Isa. 64:6).
This verse is to remind us that, compared to God’s glorious perfection, we fall short of the glory of God. It is a warning about being vain about our “good works”, that they cannot save us or make us in any way worthy.
Only the perfect Sacrifice, Jesus Christ, can do that.
The Biblical truths I’ve told you are not “the filthy work of mud throwing.” They are necessary to put into perspective our dependence on Jesus for everything, even the good works we do. And the New Testament teaches that we don’t do our good works to GET saved, we do them because we ARE saved.
I couldn't agree with you more. I typed about 150 words...and 138 of them were yours...in the exact order you typed them...(thank you for making my point better than I ever could)
What is an “evangelical”?
Do you have your red underwear on?...the underwear that once you become a “Temple” Mormon you are told you must wear always to make it to heaven.
“He that believes and calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”....not a word about red underwear in ALL of REAL scripture.
I do not own any red underwear. You better go back to either your preacher or whatever other crackpot you are listening to and get your facts straight.
Dibs on as Beta Hydri.
ROFLOL!!!
And the New Testament teaches that we don’t do our good works to GET saved, we do them because we ARE saved.
You said:
“Then many of those posting untruths about others on FR, it appears, think they are saved, but clearly ARE NOT saved and don’t know it. Interesting.”
Ahhh, yes. But which ones are posting untruths and think they are saved, and which are not and don’t know it?
I’ll put my trust in what the New Testament declares about salvation, and not depend on Joseph Smith as the new messiah to give me the keys to the kingdom, as the Mormon church teaches.
My post was about those busy bashing Mormonism. If that is not you, I wish you well on your search for truth.
“I wish you well on your search for truth.”
Thank you. However I really believe in my heart, and based on the Word and the Spirit of Christ, that I’ve found salvational truth.
If there's one lesson that LDS apologists will stress over & over again, it's that...
...LDS standard works (their "scriptures") easily trump (no comparison) non-standard works.
...That LDS-canonized "Scriptures" trump non-canonized materials.
...That LDS prophetic revelation trumps LDS opinions & "speculations"--even when from LDS "prophets."
What we have here, and Broncobilly knows it's so (yes he decided to obfuscate) is a mere "opinion"--a mere "speculation" on the part of Smith...Every Mormon knows that the Documented History of the Church--at least most of it--is not an "inspired" document even to them. Yet what does Broncobilly do? He goes & cites D.H.C. vol. 5, p. 517. 1844 in an attempt to trump LDS official canonized prophetic revelation that is part of the LDS standard works:
Pearl of Great Price - Joseph Smith - History verse 20: I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
And the context of where "Prebyterian" faltered in the eyes of Smith? ("All" their "creeds"). I mean what difference does it make if Smith threw them an 1844 bone that Presbyterians can distinguish the truth of the left shoe from the right shoe if ALL their creedal beliefs were so abominable to the mormon god?
But the big lesson is that LDS apologists cannot continue to have it both ways. They can't pretend to get on their high horse & lecture "lowly" folks who cite LDS prophets of history on the fine points of standard works, canonized sources of info, and prophetic revelation if they turn around and openly commit this same so-called "error."
They need to be consistent.
...not always giving a fullness of truth such as may be found in the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ...
If the "fulness of the gospel" as you describe was so important it would have been in the Book of Mormon, which Joseph Smith described as the "fullness of the everlasting gospel" (see D&C).
We don't see a "second-chance" gospel in the "full" Book of Mormon? (baptism for the dead or for "three-hundred-fifty millions of people that live in China") now do we?
We don't see the gospel of becoming a god or eternal progression in the "full" Book of Mormon, now do we?
We don't see families and marriages are forever as a "gospel principle" in the "full" Book of Mormon, now do we?
We don't see a flesh & bone god in the Book of Mormon, now do we?
We don't see temples as LDS build them today nor temple rites as LDS implement today in the "full" Book of Mormon, now do we?
We don't see gospel principles describing the eternal glories of three degrees of heaven in the "full" Book of Mormon, now do we?
We don't see temporary spirit prisons and temporary damnation in the "full" Book of Mormon, now do we?
We don't see the "gospel principle" for women that if they want to reach the celestial (highest) kingdom, they need to get married in the "full" Book of Mormon, now do we?
We don't see the "gospel principle" of immortality being obtained by way of mortality in the "full Book of Mormon, now do we? (What I mean here is that LDS believe that immortality occurred because Adam & Eve sinned & became "mortal"...up until then they were just bloodless creatures...by sinning in such a way, that opened the door to godhood...therefore LDS leaders call such sin, disobedience, & the wave of consequences upon the earth ever sin as a "celebration"...elsewise men could not become immortal gods). not found in the allegedly gospel-full Book of Mormon, but this should suffice.
You have some incorrect information, and some that IS corerct. The garment is white. Pure white.
BUT...From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment
In some denominations of the Latter Day Saint movement, the temple garment (or the Garment of the Holy Priesthood, or informally, the garment or garments, or “Mormon underwear” by those outside the faith) is a set of sacred underclothing worn by adult adherents who have taken part in a ritual ceremony known as washing and anointing ordinance, usually in a temple as part of the Endowment ceremony. In modern times, the temple garment is worn primarily by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) along with several small religious groups who separated from the LDS Church. Adherents consider them to be sacred and may be offended by public discussion of the garments
I don’t understand why the Mormon had to treat you that way. Why didn’t he simply correct you like I did.
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