Posted on 12/09/2007 5:23:00 AM PST by LowCountryJoe
[snip]Another question: Why are you so upset about this particular form of lawbreaking? After all, there are lots of laws, not all of them enforced with vigor. The suspicion naturally arises that the illegality is not what bothers you. What bothers you is the immigration. There is an easy way to test this. Reducing illegal immigration is hard, but increasing legal immigration would be easy. If your view is that legal immigration is good and illegal immigration is bad, how about increasing legal immigration? How about doubling it? Any takers?...
[snip]But let's not kid ourselves that all we care about is obeying the law and all we are asking illegals to do is go home and get in line like everybody else. We know perfectly well that the line is too long, and we are basically telling people to go home and not come back.
Let's not kid ourselves, either, about who we are telling this to. To characterize illegal immigrants as queue-jumping, lawbreaking scum is seriously unjust. The motives of illegal immigrants--which can be summarized as "a better life"--are identical to those of legal immigrants. In fact, they are largely identical to the motives of our own parents, grandparents and great-grandparents when they immigrated. And not just that. Ask yourself, of these three groups--today's legal and illegal immigrants and the immigrants of generations ago--which one has proven most dramatically its appreciation of our country? Which one has shown the most gumption, the most willingness to risk all to get to the U.S. and the most willingness to work hard once here? Well, everyone's story is unique. But who loves the U.S. most? On average, probably, the winners of this American-values contest would be the illegals, doing our dirty work under constant fear of eviction,...
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
Why was that important? And do you believe me?
sorry....should I attach BARF alerts to all my posts from now on?
Kinsley has set up his own straw man.
Doubling legal immigration would not stop, or even slow, the flood of illegals.
Only securing the borders and fining companies for hiring illegals will start the long process of solving the problem. Let’s do that first, then see where we are, before adjusting the legal immigration level.
The generic things put forward in #17 and in post #29 are places to start, in my opinion
Just trying to determine your motivation. The pro invasion crowd is owned by the Chamber of Commerce Lobby. You could be a paid troll. By the way, put me in the build the fence, deport 'em crowd. Also, my postion doesn't require any justification because it's the law! I like how your side puts us on the defensive, when your corrupt position is the one needing defense. If you support the corruption that is poisoning this country then you are also corrupt, for one cannot exist without the other.
Not flaming at you, but at this slimy toad Kinsley.
I’m a strong believer in LEGAL immigration. I wouldn’t be here without it. In fact I believe that we do need MORE legal immigration. But we also need to reset some of the “rules.”
Kinsley asks some questions, like “who loves America more” and postulates that it’s the hard working “immigrant.” Simply put, we need 2 types of immigrants. Those who want to become citizens, and those who are just here for the work. In either case, we need to make sure that these are people we “want” here. Meaning no communicable diseases, current on their immunizations, and willing to learn to speak English. Oh, and completely ineligible for government or public benefits. That worked quite well before the era of the US Welfare State, and it should work today as well.
One of the greatest strengths of the USA was the “melting pot” of different peoples and cultures. The key is that people would assimilate into the American culture. But the people who hate America have also realized that “E Plurbus Unum,” “From Many, One” needs to be destroyed in order to destroy what America is. Which is why they’ve worked long and hard to turn America into a balkanized group of peoples who are dependent on the state for their needs.
Mark
He likened the problem to a flood, which is unregulated and overwhelming (and destructive). From that you set up an anti-immigration extremist straw man. It’s pretty rich that you do this, then start talking solutions.
Maybe we can take the Colonel’s flood metaphor, and expand on that. Compare a flood to irrigation (which is only three letters away from “immigration,” so even a Kinsley sypathizer can follow along), which is regulated and beneficial. Being anti-flood doesn’t make one anti-water.
Absolutely, but they're most effective if used in conjunction. Cutting off the welfare freebies for one. Heavily fining illegal-hiring employers for another. Considerably beefing up the border patrol for yet another. And of course eliminating the anchor baby provision in the 1965 Immigration Act. ...heck, rescind that entire piece of garbage altogether. Finally, cut off federal aid to all sanctuary cities.
....and then watch the hordes who have no intention of assimilating into American life deport themselves. Won't take too long at all, I suspect.
As far as legal immigration is concerned (kommie Kinsley insists we talk about that as well), the selection process needs a complete overhaul. But we can start by eliminating all Muslim immigration. Yes, all. Not one more Mohammedan until that culture can civilize itself. ...which could very well be never. And third-world immigration as a whole should be de-emphasized, which of course would automatically happen if my suggestion in regarding the rescinding 1965 Immigration Act were ever acted upon.
Essential reading: The 1965 Immigration Act: Anatomy of a Disaster
His veritable school of red herrings is hardly even worth attention, much less substantive response.
I disagree with you and the author of this article. I wondered why someone would post this on FR the way you did, in a “trolling for flames” mode. (if you disagree with my characterization, you need only read your initial posting. No ambiguity there.) Your tagline sounds like it was written by a liberal. Everything “feels” good about it, I would guess.
You “believe in Freedom”. Very nice. The rest of us Jack-Booted thugs (who are against people having the “right” to march into our country against our laws and take it over) are definitely against freedom, so that makes you far superior to us.
You are “socially independent”? Gee, how forward thinking, comrade. The fact that you have to say that says something about you.
You are a “ a borderline fiscal anarchist” as well? Well, I would say that is at least truthful with respect to your stand on this issue. You get points for honesty there, at least.
Point is, I grant that some people use their tagline to be witty. Some use it to be offbeat. Some use it to to make a revealing statement about themselves in a very short space. You may have been trying to be witty, but I think you revealed much about yourself in a short space.
Of course not—the style is refreshing.It makes one feel for an instance that one is thought a resident of Rio Linda.
and Rush would be talking to Rio Linda....lol
NO
[snip]But let's not kid ourselves that all we care about is obeying the law and all we are asking illegals to do is go home and get in line like everybody else. We know perfectly well that the line is too long, and we are basically telling people to go home and not come back.
Took you long enough to figure that out
Let's not kid ourselves, either, about who we are telling this to. To characterize illegal immigrants as queue-jumping, lawbreaking scum is seriously unjust. The motives of illegal immigrants--which can be summarized as "a better life"--are identical to those of legal immigrants. In fact, they are largely identical to the motives of our own parents, grandparents and great-grandparents when they immigrated.
Actually I agree . I never thought demonizing illegal immigrants was the right thing to do and have personally argued against it
And not just that. Ask yourself, of these three groups--today's legal and illegal immigrants and the immigrants of generations ago--which one has proven most dramatically its appreciation of our country? Which one has shown the most gumption, the most willingness to risk all to get to the U.S. and the most willingness to work hard once here? Well, everyone's story is unique. But who loves the U.S. most? On average, probably, the winners of this American-values contest would be the illegals, doing our dirty work under constant fear of eviction,.
Wrong .
Todays illegal immigrants have little to fear of deportation , Today there are plenty of illegals doing jobs that would have been considered good jobs before like carpenters Electricians and butchers.
The immigrants in the past knew that they had to make it on their own my Irish ancestors didn't come here expecting free health care , food stamps and welfare
Liberals see illegal aliens as a potential source of votes. Plus Liberals despise American culture. We cannot let everyone in because they want a better life. Should we depopulate El Salvador and move the entire country here for a better life?
The idea is pure bunk.
You make the 19 year old college freshman error of thinking Mexico, Canada and who knows who else WANTS to be part of the USA. They don’t. They want the opportunity, money and freedom we have here, but they want their own country.
Look at Puerto Rico as a prime example of this. If we wanted to, we could just take them over, but we leave it up to them. It is highly illustrative to see how they, as a small island, have handled it. They want all the benefit but none of the responsibilities.
I’ve only met one person upset because I married a Filipina while stationed there, or because I adopted 2 kids there before returning.
The problem isn’t with immigration by itself, but when it comes illegally from people who have no wish to assimilate. The anger comes when we pull up to a drive thru and are asked for our order in Spanish. The anger comes when many of those coming across the border are NOT good people looking for jobs, but bad people who steal, threaten, or leave their trash in our yards. The anger comes when those entering decide to live 12 to a house so they can work for less, forcing Americans to either stoop to that level of living or find a different line of work. And the anger comes when we bring in large numbers of Somalians, who don’t have jobs, don’t know English, and who feel free to attack American girls in school because in ‘their culture’ a female isn’t permitted to talk back to a male.
I’m in favor of a pause in all immigration from Mexico until we’ve had a chance to assimilate those who are here - and based on studies of language adoption, that may well take 2 generations. I have no heartburn at all with increasing legal immigration from China, the Pacific, Europe or other non-muslim parts of the world.
Please provide your source for this allegation as is applies to Mexicans, Central and South Americans who entered this country illegally.
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