Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Ask candidates why military guns OK'd for public, advocate urges (Barf Alert)
The Altoona Herald ^ | December 7, 2007 | Tony Leys and Jason Clayworth

Posted on 12/07/2007 6:03:10 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Iowans should press presidential candidates for their views on assault weapons in light of Wednesday's shopping-mall massacre in Omaha, a national gun-control advocate said Thursday.

Most Democratic candidates support reinstating a federal assault-weapons ban that expired in 2004.

Most Republican candidates oppose reinstating the ban, saying it was ineffective.

Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said Thursday that the 30-round ammunition clips Robert Hawkins reportedly used in Wednesday's shootings in Omaha would have been illegal to purchase under the assault-weapons ban.

Helmke said it was not clear whether the gun itself, described as an AK-47-style assault rifle, would have been covered by the ban. But it should be illegal, he said.

"If this is something that can take a 30-round clip and fire them off quickly, it should be banned. This is a weapon of mass murder," he said.

Hawkins used the rifle to kill eight people and wound five before killing himself, police said. He reportedly stole the gun from his stepfather.

The assault-weapons ban was passed in 1994 and allowed to lapse a decade later. It covered purchases of specific models of guns and certain accessories, including clips that held more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

Helmke said Iowans should demand responses from the presidential candidates campaigning before the caucuses. He said they should ask why Americans are allowed to buy guns designed for the military.

"Basically, should the public be able to get the types of guns we use in Iraq?" he said.

State Rep. Clel Baudler, R-Greenfield, who is a board member of the National Rifle Association, urged people not to rush to judgment while police investigate the Omaha shootings.

Baudler said every time such a tragedy happens, NRA supporters expect to hear calls to toughen gun-control laws.

But he contended that if the killers didn't have guns, they would use another type of weapon.

"When you have a lunatic that's bent on becoming famous and wants to be remembered, you're going to have problems, whether it's a gasoline bomb or any type of device. ... It comes back to the lunatic," he said.

Baudler added that the 30-round clips reportedly used in Omaha take less than two seconds to replace, so a smaller-capacity clip would not have slowed the shooter very much on Wednesday.

Earlier this fall, The Des Moines Register surveyed presidential candidates about their stances on gun control.

Democrats Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Chris Dodd, John Edwards, Dennis Kucinich and Barack Obama said they would support reinstating the assault-weapons ban.

Democrat Bill Richardson and Republicans Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Ron Paul, Mitt Romney, Tom Tancredo and Fred Thompson said they would not support reinstating the ban.

Several of them said they opposed the ban because they thought it was ineffective.

Republican Rudy Giuliani's campaign declined to specifically answer the question, but Giuliani supported the ban when it was enacted in 1994.

Helmke, the gun-control advocate, said the Republican candidates appear to have more differences over the issue than their Democratic counterparts.

Although they do not talk much about it as candidates, he said, Romney and Giuliani were relatively supportive of gun control in their previous jobs as governor of Massachusetts and mayor of New York City. McCain also has been relatively moderate on some gun-control issues, Helmke added.

He said it was not clear whether other restrictions, such as bans on sales of guns to mentally ill people, would have affected the outcome of Wednesday's shooting.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reporter Tony Leys can be reached at (515) 284-8449 or tleys@dmreg.com


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; bradybill; concealedcarry; electionpresident; elections; gop; guncontrol; gungrabbers; omahashooting; republicans; rkba
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-79 last
To: 2ndDivisionVet

I guess my Model 1911 .45 pistol is also in need of banning, you libtards? After all, it was initially designed for the military.../dripping sarcasm


61 posted on 12/08/2007 6:49:00 AM PST by OCCASparky (Steely-Eyed Killer of the Deep)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek
A while back I saw a newsbimbo say "Semi automatic weapons can't be used for hunting" as if it were fact.

Izzat so? I guess all those years I spent as a kid hunting varmints, rabbits, etc., with my .22 semi-auto was just a figment of my imagination then. Thanks for clearing that up!
62 posted on 12/08/2007 6:51:27 AM PST by OCCASparky (Steely-Eyed Killer of the Deep)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: El Gato

I realize it did not. My point is that anti-gun forces say that it did, yet they also say that we’re not “allowed” to have militia weapons.

They want it both ways.


63 posted on 12/08/2007 7:27:42 AM PST by Hazwaste (Now with added lemony freshness!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: goldstategop

Semi-automatics are NOT military weapons. Stupid liberals can’t seem to differentiate between a semi and and automatic. The latter has been banned in the civilian market in this country since 1934.


Actually, full-auto has been banned since 1986 (with preexisting models grandfathered, and transfer permitted only though a rigorous process.)


64 posted on 12/08/2007 7:33:54 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed ("We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts; I support them, I won't chip away at them" -Mitt Romney)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: El Gato
I didn't know that he switched out mags. And I hadn't seen any video of him with the gun, just one of him walking in and looking around.

For what it's worth, I knew one of the women who was killed. Had Thanksgiving dinner with her last year. This is utter insanity. If Omaha, Nebraska isn't safe, no place is.

65 posted on 12/08/2007 8:14:20 AM PST by IronJack (=)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: El Gato

It WAS an SKS. And he DIDN’T switch out mags. See this thread.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1936616/posts


66 posted on 12/08/2007 8:19:00 AM PST by IronJack (=)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
In the 1700’s, the military used the smooth bore flintlock musket. Civilians used super accurate flintlock rifles.

If one wanted to have a bunch of soldiers march into an area and capture it, a musket was a far superior weapon to a rifle. While a musket could not be aimed accurately at an individual target the way a rifle could, a row of muskets firing simultaneously could do great damage to anything or anyone in front of it.

The problem for the British was that even though their soldiers could go anywhere they wanted, and the colonists didn't have the power to stop them, such ability wasn't of sufficient military use to justify the cost. If the British had simply sought to drive out the colonists from anyplace they captured, they could probably have cleared out the colonies so that new people could move in; the colonists' rifles would not have been able to stop that. On the other hand, the British were trying to put down a rebellion without displacing loyal subjects. That was a much greater challenge, and one the British could not meet.

67 posted on 12/08/2007 9:35:25 AM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: szweig
“I went to high school with Paul Helmke. He is an ass.

Steve Zweig
North Side HS ‘67”

It is always nice to have a little personal insight into the opposition.

Please tell us more, or if you do not feel comfortable with a post to all, a private post would be appreciated.

68 posted on 12/08/2007 1:50:14 PM PST by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: IronJack
It WAS an SKS. And he DIDN’T switch out mags. See this thread.

If you revisit that thread, you'll see they are now saying it was an AK-47. (Meaning of course an AK-47 semi-auto clone)

69 posted on 12/08/2007 3:18:48 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: Truth29
Could you see the right side of the weapon with the large AK safety lever by any chance?

No, I was going by the configuration of the front sight and the profile of the gas tube and receiver.

70 posted on 12/08/2007 3:21:29 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: El Gato

For as long as they keep the pic up, here's the rifle.

71 posted on 12/08/2007 3:31:01 PM PST by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
military guns

I'm not away of any military in the world that issues semiautomatic versions of select fire intermediate power weapons. They issue the select fire versions. They may *use* them in semiautomatic mode, but they issue the select fire weapons.

72 posted on 12/08/2007 3:41:25 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: socialismisinsidious
yeah and I bet that would have stopped the mentally ill guy who was hell bent on KILLING...he probably would have said: "wow there's a ban on this weapon, I better not use it". I mean if there had been a law he wouldn't have broke it.(he probably didn't know that killing people is against the law or that the mall was a gun free zone) sure.

Not to mention that he could have done just as much damage with a Mini-30, firing the same cartridge, or for that matter, a 30-30 lever action rifle, although it would have taken him a minuscule and unimportant in the situation amount of time to reload.

73 posted on 12/08/2007 3:44:20 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Still Thinking
Not even tyrants?

Semi-autos are OK for that, but bolt actions firing a full power cartridge are really better. Especially inexpensive mil surplus throw aways. Although in some scenarios one of these, or it's bolt action cousins, would be just the thing for tyrannicide.


74 posted on 12/08/2007 3:50:42 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: supercat
If one wanted to have a bunch of soldiers march into an area and capture it, a musket was a far superior weapon to a rifle. While a musket could not be aimed accurately at an individual target the way a rifle could, a row of muskets firing simultaneously could do great damage to anything or anyone in front of it.

That takes coordination, it was done by commands, relayed from the officers through the "sergeants". So the riflemen would pick off the officers and the sergeants while still out of musket range, turning the precise formations into a disorganized mob, which would either retreat or be picked off in turn. The only real advantage the musket had was rate of fire. Until the invention of the Mine ball that is. Even then it took lots of dead troops, even as late as the Civil War, for the Powers That Be to figure out that musket tactics weren't going to cut it anymore. Similar effect occurred with the invention of the Machine Gun.

75 posted on 12/08/2007 4:03:29 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: Billthedrill
I think you'll find that the picture is not of *the* weapon used, but rather a stock photo used to illustrate the type of weapon, the first evening and early on the second day, when the authorities were saying "SKS". They've now gone back to saying "AK-47". Here's a photo similar to what I saw on CNN, might even be the same photo, taken from a (so called) security camera.

The sight appears too tall for an SKS, and the gas tube and receiver profiles are very AK like to my eye. Looks like it might even have a vertical foregrip by the position of his left hand.

76 posted on 12/08/2007 4:41:05 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: supercat

***If one wanted to have a bunch of soldiers march into an area and capture it, a musket was a far superior weapon to a rifle***

True, only because the rifle was slower to load and did not have a bayonet. The Brown Bess was idiot proof but you still could not hit a person at 100 yards if you aimed at him. That is why British soldiers were NOT taught to aim, but just to point and shoot.

The rifle won the battle of King’s Mountain.
The British officers were very afraid of the Rifle as the colonists had a nasty habit of picking off officers. One officer wrote home that any officers going to fight in the colonies should make a will as he would probably end up shot.


77 posted on 12/08/2007 8:18:27 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
"Hawkins used the rifle to kill eight people...He reportedly stole the gun from his stepfather."

If only there had been a law against stealing, this bloodshed might have been avoided.

78 posted on 12/08/2007 8:28:01 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: El Gato

Yeah, I don’t know what that is exactly. I’m guessing you’re right about the stock photo - that doesn’t look much like it. Somebody in the property room knows, though.


79 posted on 12/08/2007 11:01:32 PM PST by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-79 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson