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How and Why Romney Bombed
TCS ^
| 12/7/6/7
| Lee Harris
Posted on 12/07/2007 8:10:37 AM PST by ZGuy
The Reuters headline said: "Mitt Romney Vows Mormon Church Will Not Run White House." Unfortunately, this time Reuters got its story right. In his long-awaited speech designed to win over conservative evangelicals, Romney actually did say something to this effect, making many people wonder why he needed to make such a vow in the first place. It's a bit like hearing Giuliani vow that the mafia will not be running his White Houseit is always dangerous to say what should go without saying, because it makes people wonder why you felt the need to say it. Is the Mormon church itching to run the White House, and does Romney need to stand firm against them?
It is true that John Kennedy made a similar vow in his famous 1960 speech on religion, and Romney was clearly modeling his speech on Kennedy's. But the two situations are not the same. When John Kennedy vowed that the Vatican would not control his administration, he was trying to assuage the historical fear of the Roman Catholic Church that had been instilled into generations of Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Kennedy shrewdly didn't say that the Vatican wouldn't try to interferesomething that his Protestant target audience would never have believed in a millions years anyway; instead, Kennedy said in effect, "I won't let the Vatican interfere." And many Protestants believed himin large part, because no one really thought Kennedy took his religion seriously enough to affect his behavior one way or the other.
The Mormon church is not Romney's problem; it is Romney's own personal religiosity. On the one hand, Romney is too religious for those who don't like religion in public lifea fact that alienates him from those who could care less about a candidate's religion, so long as the candidate doesn't much care about it himself. On the other hand, Romney offends precisely those Christian evangelicals who agree with him most on the importance of religion in our civic life, many of whom would be his natural supporters if only he was a "real" Christian like them, and not a Mormon instead.
To say that someone is not a real Christian sounds rather insulting, like saying that he is not a good person. But when conservative Christians make this point about Romney, they are talking theology, not morality. Anyone with even a passing familiarity with the Mormon creed will understand at once why Romney felt little desire to debate its theological niceties with his target audience of Christian evangelicals, many of whom are inclined to see Mormonism not as a bona fide religion, but as a cult. In my state of Georgia, for example, there are Southern Baptist congregations that raise thousands of dollars to send missionaries to convert the Mormons to Christianity.
Yet if Romney was playing it safe by avoiding theology, he was treading on dangerous ground when he appealed to the American tradition of religious tolerance to make his case. Instead of trying to persuade the evangelicals that he was basically on their side, he did the worst thing he could do: he put them on the defensive. In his speech Romney came perilously close to suggesting: If you don't support me, you are violating the cherished principle of religious tolerance. But such a claim is simply untenable and, worse, highly offensive.
The Christian evangelicals who are troubled by Romney's candidacy do not pose a threat to the American principle of religious tolerance. On the contrary, they are prepared to tolerate Mormons in their society, just as they are prepared to tolerate atheists and Jews, Muslims and Hindus. No evangelical has said, "Romney should not be permitted to run for the Presidency because he is a Mormon." None has moved to have a constitutional amendment forbidding the election of a Mormon to the Presidency. That obviously would constitute religious intolerance, and Romney would have every right to wax indignant about it. But he has absolutely no grounds for raising the cry of religious intolerance simply because some evangelicals don't want to see a Mormon as President and are unwilling to support him. I have no trouble myself tolerating Satan-worshippers in America, but I would not be inclined to vote for one as President: Does that make me bigot? The question of who we prefer to lead us has nothing to do with the question of who we are willing to tolerate, and it did Romney no credit to conflate these two quite distinct questions. There is nothing wrong with evangelicals wishing to see one of their own in the White House, or with atheists wishing to see one of theirs in the same position.
Romney's best approach might have been to say nothing at all. Certainly that would have been preferable to trying to turn his candidacy into an issue of religious tolerance. Better still, he might have said frankly: "My religion is different and, yes, even a trifle odd. But it has not kept Mormons from dying for their country, or paying their taxes, or educating their kids, or making decent communities in which to live."
TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: leeharris; loyalties; mormon; romney
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Lots of pro-Romney speech threads here, so here's one not so favorable. Hugh Hewitt's blog review was also very favorable to Mitt, but Hugh's writings were described as "bizarre" over at Red State.
I found it humorous that Hugh, who is the biggest cheerleader for Romney out there, had as his guest host yesterday, Mark Stein who interviewed John Podhoritz (?) and they both agreed that Romney giving that speech was a terrible move that made him look like an amateur and was the worst thing he could have done politically.
1
posted on
12/07/2007 8:10:38 AM PST
by
ZGuy
To: ZGuy
2
posted on
12/07/2007 8:13:21 AM PST
by
sageb1
(This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
To: sageb1
To Father Jonathan Morris - I don’t recall John F. Kennedy explaining such things as the virgin birth and other finer details about his Roman Catholic faith. I probably wouldn’t have found them relevant either.
3
posted on
12/07/2007 8:16:12 AM PST
by
rhombus
To: ZGuy
It was a good speech, but will not help him.
4
posted on
12/07/2007 8:16:55 AM PST
by
pissant
(Duncan Hunter: Warrior, Statesman, Conservative)
To: ZGuy
I agree it was not a wise move. Today’s columnists have decided to explain all the things Romney left out.
5
posted on
12/07/2007 8:16:57 AM PST
by
sageb1
(This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
To: ZGuy
As a Mormon (who opposes Romney on his liberal record), I again see this assumption about main-stream christianity.
The jews reguarded all the prophets and even Christ himself as apostates and rejected and killed them. Christians were considered part of a cult early on.
I guess I will take your frivolous words and your minister’s interpretation of the bible as the gospel. Prayer and personal testimony on my part should be abandoned.
To: rhombus
Rush said that the speach was a home run. I agree - and Rush is right 98.8% of the time.
7
posted on
12/07/2007 8:17:44 AM PST
by
rface
(kooky inside and out)
To: ZGuy
I thought he did a great job .. stated his position
clearly and gave historical information on which
America needed reminding about religion and politics.
8
posted on
12/07/2007 8:18:23 AM PST
by
STARWISE
(They (Dims) think of this WOT as Bush's war, not America's war-RichardMiniter, respected OBL author)
To: ZGuy
Regardless of how Romney’s speech went, this is reflecting VERY poorly on evangelicals.
9
posted on
12/07/2007 8:19:13 AM PST
by
Hoodlum91
(I support global warming.)
To: ZGuy
Here's John Podhoretz' take:
John Podhoretz - 12.06.2007 - 13:08
So Mitt Romney, facing the rise of Mike Huckabees Christian-centric campaign in Iowa and judging that the Huckabee surge is related to discomfort with Romneys Mormonism, gave his much-anticipated speech on faith this morning. Its perfectly fine Republican boilerplate faith must inform our views but it does not guide them, the public square should not be naked, our Founders believed in religion and yet even they had to deal with intolerance toward minority faiths, Martin Luther King was really very good, etc. etc. Many commentators on the Right are praising the speech, but I fear theyre grading on a curve; strictly as a matter of rhetoric, it tended toward the bland. The only genuinely novel aspect of it was the addition of the Mormon trail to a brief account of the history of religious intolerance in America (Because of their diverse beliefs, Ann Hutchinson was exiled from Massachusetts Bay, a banished Roger Williams founded Rhode Island, and two centuries later, Brigham Young set out for the West. Americans were unable to accommodate their commitment to their own faith with an appreciation for the convictions of others to different faiths
).
The key passage is this:
I do not define my candidacy by my religion. A person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith. Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions. Their authority is theirs, within the province of church affairs, and it ends where the affairs of the nation begin
.
If I am fortunate to become your president, I will serve no one religion, no one group, no one cause, and no one interest. A President must serve only the common cause of the people of the United States.
There are some for whom these commitments are not enough. They would prefer it if I would simply distance myself from my religion, say that it is more a tradition than my personal conviction, or disavow one or another of its precepts. That I will not do. I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers I will be true to them and to my beliefs.
Thats entirely fine. But theres something oddly pointless about this protestation. Who is the audience for this speech, aside from people like me who make their living in part watching them and reading their texts and writing about them? No one thought Romney would say that Mormon elders would play a leading role in his White House counseling him on policy. Anyone inclined to believe such a thing wont be convinced by Romneys protestations in any case.
Romney has always had an uphill battle in this election, although youre not supposed to say it, as it will occasion someone else delivering you a long speech about religious tolerance. As far as minority religions go, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is one of the minority-est. There are, by at least one count, three times as many Jews in the United States. The number of Americans who openly profess to be Christian is around 74 percent; the number of those raised Christian is 84 percent. Americans are without a doubt the most tolerant people on earth, but religion is very important to them, and someone whose fellow believers number 1/55th of the population of the United States is someone who is going to have trouble closing the deal with voters.
For those who dont know Romney is a Mormon, well, they sure will now. For the next two or three days, its all anybody will know about him. Chances are it is the word that people will most associate with him from here on out. I dont think thats a good direction for a campaign that finds itself in the fight of its life in Iowa against the most explicitly Christian candidate in the field. (The only response so far comparable to mine is David Frums, though his typically trenchant criticism has more to do with the underlying meaning of the speech.)
Link
10
posted on
12/07/2007 8:19:30 AM PST
by
greyfoxx39
(Romney, fooled TWICE by a Columbian gardener...what kind of discernment for POTUS is this?)
To: ZGuy
It was a good speech, but if it was intended to influence Evangelicals, I doubt it was successful.
11
posted on
12/07/2007 8:20:06 AM PST
by
trisham
(Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
To: ZGuy
We did not think Romney bombed. He gave and excellent speech.
We still prefer Duncan Hunter as a first choice!
12
posted on
12/07/2007 8:20:28 AM PST
by
Dustbunny
(The BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth)
To: ZGuy
Here is David Frum:
|
Thursday, December 06, 2007
That Dog Won't Hunt Sorry to dissent from my colleagues on the Corner, but once the murmurs over the oratory subside, people are going to realize: that speech did not work. Here's why:
"There is one fundamental question about which I often am asked. What do I believe about Jesus Christ? I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind. My church's beliefs about Christ may not all be the same as those of other faiths. Each religion has its own unique doctrines and history. These are not bases for criticism but rather a test of our tolerance."
To be blunt, Romney is saying: It is legitimate to ask a candidate, "Is Jesus the son of God?" But it is illegitimate to ask a candidate, "Is Jesus the brother of Lucifer?" It is hard for me to see a principled difference between these two questions, and I think on reflection that the audiences to whom Romney is trying to appeal will also fail to see such a difference. Once Romney answered any question about the content of his religious faith, he opened the door to every question about the content of his religious faith. This speech for all its eloquence will not stanch the flow of such questions. Bad move - and one with very unfair results to a candidate who all must acknowledge is a man who has proven that his mind actually operates in a highly empirical, data-driven, and uncredulous way. Had he focused instead on simply arguing that presidents need only prove themselves loyal to American values, he would have been on safe ground. Instead, he over-reached, super-adding to his civic appeal an additional appeal to voters who demand faith in Jesus as a requirement in a president. That is an argument that will not work - and a game Mitt Romney cannot win.
12/06 12:21 PM
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13
posted on
12/07/2007 8:20:31 AM PST
by
greyfoxx39
(Romney, fooled TWICE by a Columbian gardener...what kind of discernment for POTUS is this?)
To: Count of Monte Logan
Did Joseph Smith “idolize” Muhammed?
14
posted on
12/07/2007 8:23:19 AM PST
by
sageb1
(This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
To: rhombus
I dont recall John F. Kennedy explaining such things as the virgin birth and other finer details about his Roman Catholic faith The virgin birth is not exclusively Catholic...it's Christian, gospel truth in the Bible
.
15
posted on
12/07/2007 8:23:19 AM PST
by
repentant_pundit
(Strong leaders are overrated. We need strong followers...of the Constitution)
To: Hoodlum91
Regardless of how Romneys speech went, this is reflecting VERY poorly on evangelicals.They have been about as useful as the "human shields" (and just as wise). ;-)
16
posted on
12/07/2007 8:24:20 AM PST
by
rhombus
To: ZGuy
Its always interesting to compare initial reactions to a given political speech, after time has passed.
The media and political commentators of the day mocked Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address unmercifully. As we all know today, its known as one of the greatest speeches ever given to millions, more than a century later.
The same was said of Reagans ‘Tear Down This Wall’ speech, more or less. Today we all know it was one of those moments that changed the world we grew up in (if you were alive for Duck and Cover training in grade school, you know what I mean here).
I suspect Romney’s speech will survive the test of time, not on par with my two examples, but the response to it is on par with both from what I’m reading today, in some quarters.
I don’t think the detractors comments will survive that same test, any more than those denigrating Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address or Reagans ‘Wall’ speech have.
Just my opinion, it was a good speech, well delivered from the heart. We’ll see if it was a turning point less than a year from now.
17
posted on
12/07/2007 8:24:31 AM PST
by
Badeye
(Free Willie!)
To: repentant_pundit
The virgin birth is not exclusively Catholic...it's Christian, gospel truth in the BibleThen a Mormon would believe it too?
18
posted on
12/07/2007 8:25:12 AM PST
by
rhombus
To: rface
RUSH: I want to start with Mitt Romney today, Mitt Romney's speech. Frankly, I thought what we saw today, folks, was a Republican candidate for president giving an inspiring speech. It was an inspiring speech about American values, including religion. Mitt Romney did this because he has been relentlessly attacked as something less than a true American. I watched this. I had seen some excerpts from the speech published before he made it. I thought he was inspiring, folks. I think he set exactly the right tone and I am stunned by some of the criticism I am seeing of this speech, particularly on some conservative websites. "He didn't include atheists; he didn't include agnostics; he didn't say and reach out to Hindus." I don't understand it. Of all things to take from this speech that Romney gave today, that he didn't reach out to atheists and didn't reach out to agnostics, is beyond me. I thought he showed today his ability to confront, to articulate, to persuade, and to lead. (cont.)
Mitt Romney's Inspiring Speech
Mitt Romney Raised the Bar
VIDEO: Watch Entire Speech Here
19
posted on
12/07/2007 8:25:17 AM PST
by
Miss Didi
("Good heavens, woman, this is a war not a garden party!" Dr. Meade, Gone with the Wind)
To: colorcountry; FastCoyote; MHGinTN; Pan_Yans Wife; svcw; Elsie; aMorePerfectUnion; Colofornian; ...
20
posted on
12/07/2007 8:26:16 AM PST
by
greyfoxx39
(Romney, fooled TWICE by a Columbian gardener...what kind of discernment for POTUS is this?)
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