Posted on 11/28/2007 12:34:38 AM PST by Zakeet
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said yesterday that he hopes to convince voters that his Mormon faith is mainstream.
"I think as people come to know my faith they'll recognize that the values of my faith are — they very much flow from the Judeo-Christian tradition of this country. I believe in God, I believe in Jesus Christ, I believe in the equality of all humankind," Mr. Romney said in an interview with The Washington Times.
[Snip]
It is Mr. Romney's Mormon faith that remains a question mark in his presidential quest. The governor is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a faith that says adherents are on a journey toward godhood, that God speaks to man today through living apostles and prophets, and that the Book of Mormon, published by Joseph Smith in 1830, is the word of God.
Mr. Romney has remained mostly mum on the topic; despite his desire to deliver a speech about his Mormon faith, he has accepted the advice of political aides who advise against the move. When he was asked last year whether he wears temple garments, white underwear similar to a mesh shirt and boxer shorts that signify purity, he said: "I'll just say those sorts of things I'll keep private."
The candidate's religion, however, threatens to become a very public campaign issue — and a dangerous one. In a recent Gallup survey, just two-thirds of conservatives said they could support a Mormon candidate.
Meanwhile, other candidates, while skirting around the edges, have also brought up the governor's faith.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
The term is “Danite,” so named for their love of pastries to enjoy with their coffee — in secret.... 8~)
Porter Rockwell appeared to me in a dream and appointed me to the modern continuation of the Danite intifada... 8~)
There is a difference between “criticism” (requires knowledge and an intellect to apply it) and bigotry and hate....
Please visit lds.org for a presentation of the Church’s official doctrine...
How is it that you are in possession of greater wisdom than that of the “millions” to which you refer? By what priesthood authority do you teach? To which religious sect do you belong, and specifically why should I abandon my faith to join yours?
Both.
Now please take a moment and explain: If God is three, how come so many Mormons do verbal cartwheels to keep from being labeled as polytheists?
Why do some Mormons don't even know they worship 3 gods?
So you visited a temple before it was consecrated and operational, listened to "Mormons" without asking the Lord if their beliefs are true (admit it) and you visited a major SLC tourist site. Your declaration speaks volumes and shows you to be a complete lightweight in matters of faith...
Perez, if you take esarlls3's advice consistently, you'd need to conclude, "If you want to know the true background of that used car you're looking at, ask the used car salesman!"
You give yourself entirely too much credit....
Just curious: given your depiction of Christianity, and given that Free Republic is described by its founder as a pro-God website, why do you participate here? Might your feelings be better affirmed at a site like Democratic Underground?
What you are is a compound apostate....
The same used car analogy can be more aptly applied to your own religious construct which you smuggly have created in accordance with your own whims and sour grapes....
Horsepuckey. Don't insult us by referring to a trainwreck when you are one of the train's engineers. And your declaration, without evidence and surely without authority, as being a "true servant of Jesus Christ" is as arrogant as it is specious.
And BTW, who died and left you as the arbiter of what we "need to hear?" Such arrogance and presumption will bite you in the @$$ sooner than later...
Why do some Mormons don’t even know they worship 3 gods?
By what ultimate priesthood authority do you or any Mormon teach?
Our ultimate eternal priest is Jesus (Hebrews 7:24), who authorizes us to become children of God (John 1:12) and proclaim His Great Commission with "all authority" that He has (Matthew 28:18-20). NO ONE trumps Him as the authoritative Priest who has ALL authority to delegate. As Hebrews 7:24-25 makes clear, "He still lives" to do this--to act as a priestly Intercessor. He not only holds this authority in perpetuity into eternal future, but He also held it from eternal past (He claimed He shared the Father's glory before the world was--John 17:5).
On the other hand, what tides do Mormons claim as their sources & ultimate origin of their authority?
Well, first of all, when Smith started the church in 1830...there was absolutely NO discussion (zilch) of "priesthood" that year. It wasn't a Book of Mormon concept either (no priesthood in the supposed new church of the Americas...don't you find that absence curious?)
Mormons claimed that 3 Nephite disciples never died; and the apostle John never died. If God wanted a continued hand-off of earthly, human authority he could have given it to Smith from them. But, no, that didn't happen. Even in his official account of the "First Vision," Smith didn't even name the "two personages" who appeared to him. (What kind of an authority hand-off is that in light of when Moses asked the identity of the God who appeared to him, he got a response of "I AM who I AM"--Ex. 3:14?)
Even if we grant that Smith's alleged authority is somehow rooted to the Mormon jesus, where did the Mormon jesus become authorized? Answer: The Mormon heavenly father.
Now has the Mormon heavenly father always been some omnipotent and sovereign universal god? Answer: No!!! He was just some mere mortal man who worked his way up to god status. So where did the Mormon heavenly father become authorized? Answer: Apparently by his god (he wasn't part of a godless universe was he?). And who authorized his god? Apparently the god before him.
How do we know there's no ultimate god residing in or anywhere near Kolobville? Because Smith explicitly taught that all spirits and all intelligences and all matter (the holy trinity of Mormonism) are all eternal. LDS do not believe in a god who made anything out of nothing. (Smith characterized god the "creator" as actually just an "organizer").
So if the spirits & intelligences were there prior to heavenly father becoming a god, all we have to go on is Smith's "council of gods" idea + a chain of gods going back ad infinitum. Hence, NO ULTIMATE MORMON god DELEGATING ANY AUTHORITY TO ANYBODY BECAUSE THERE IS NO BUCK-STOPS-HERE MORMON god TO ORIGINATE THAT AUTHORITY!!!
There's no way you can tell any of us what original, ultimate, buck-stops-here God authorized any of what was set in motion in this part of the universe, including all so-called "priesthood activity!!!"
Frankly, if you have a man-made "religious construct," then, yes...please don't ask any of the used-car salesmen in those cases masquerading as bishops, ministers, pastors, priests or rectors. Please see the spiritual consumer advocates.
But overall, if God is truly in it, and I think you & I would agree that God is actually "in" (as far as integrity goes) a few of those places where pre-owned cars are sold...then even in those cases you can both accept the testimony of man (1 John 5:9) but we're not totally dependent upon that.
Jesus also said, "Ye shall know them by their fruit."
20I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; 21that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.24Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. (NKJ)This passage is part of a prayer made by Jesus shortly before He entered the Garden of Gethsemane and was betrayed by Judas. In the first part (v. 1-5), Christ prays for Himself; in the second (v. 6-19), He prays for His disciples; in the third (v. 20-26), He prays for all believers.
In studying the passage, I fail to see where Jesus wanted His disciples to become one substance also or partake of God’s nature and therefore become God also. Instead, Jesus is asking for unity among His believers. More specifically:
17:21 they may all be one The basis of this unity centers in adherence to the revelation the Father mediated to His first disciples through His Son. Believers are also to be united in the common belief of the truth that was received in the Word of God (Phil. 2:2) This is not still a wish, but it became a reality when the Spirit came (cf Acts 2:4; 1 Cor 12:13). It is not experiential unity, but the unity of common eternal life shared by all who believe the truth, and it results in the one body of Christ all sharing His life (cf Eph. 4:4-6).You may wish to consult an excellent Christian commentary which explains this passage in more detail. One can be obtained by clicking here, here, and here.17:22 The glory which You gave Me refers to the believer's participation in all of the attributes and essence of God through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (v. 10 cf col. 1:27; 2 Pet 1:4), as v. 23 makes clear ("I in them").
17:23 be with Me will be in heaven, where one can see the full glory that is His (cf v.5) Someday believers will not only see His glory, but share it (Phil. 3:20-21; 1 John 3:2). Until then, we participate in it spiritually (2 Cor 3:18).
Always remember when studying the Bible, it is essential to use sound hermeneutics. Hermeneutics is the science of interpreting the Bible to find what the text actually meant. There are a number of principles based on common sense. A few examples include:
I wish you the best in your search for the truth. With eternity at stake, it is absolutely imperative we "get things right." I therefore trust you will let me know if you have further questions concerning our Bible.
Let's say you're married. If I was to ask you, "Are you your own person?" You would respond, I think, "Yes."
"So you're one--an individual, right?" And you'd say, "Didn't I just say that?"
And then I could ask: "I thought you said you're married." "I am," you reply. "Didn't your bishop say to you as you were married the passage from Genesis which says 'two become one?'"
Now many who are married here would answer that question, "Why yes he did."
Married folks are in a 2-in-1 entity. And yet they are one. Are you going to ask all of them, "Why can't they make up their mind?"
My question to you is: I've heard LDS highlight something to the effect of, "Oh, yeah, the Son is unified with the Father. (Citing John 10 & John 17), oh, yeah, they are one in spirit, one in purpose, one in will." But then they stop there. Do you wanna explain how it is that a husband and wife is MORE one than just spirit, purpose and will?
How can it be that the creatures are MORE ONE than their Creator is to His own Son?
In studying the passage, I fail to see where Jesus wanted His disciples to become one substance also or partake of God’s nature and therefore become God also. Instead, Jesus is asking for unity among His believers.
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