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1 posted on 11/25/2007 2:51:25 AM PST by familyop
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To: familyop

Our problem is not addiction to oil, our problem has always been our addiction to cheap oil. The price of oil going up to $100 is the best thing that could happen for us. By over pricing their oil, the Arabs have finally priced themselves so high other US domestic and regional oil sources, and other sources of energy, have become economically viable.

OPEC is in the process of killing themselves. We should stay out of their way


2 posted on 11/25/2007 2:52:26 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Ever notice that liberals are fierce in stealing YOUR money, while never paying their “fair share")
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To: familyop

Oil demand: Car sales in China are rising by
25 per cent per year, as the expanding middle
class moves to more energy-intensive lifestyles
(File photo). (Getty Images: Ian Waldie)

3 posted on 11/25/2007 2:54:04 AM PST by familyop
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To: familyop
There is a huge untapped domestic oil supply.

If the environmentalists were to start freezing in the dark and change their views we would be floating in oil within ten years.

Congress needs to look in the mirror if they want to know why the price of oil keeps rising in the United States.
10 posted on 11/25/2007 3:12:20 AM PST by cgbg (The fight has just begun against the bully (nanny) state.)
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To: familyop

That’s funny. Prices at my station dropped 17 cents in the past week.


18 posted on 11/25/2007 4:01:38 AM PST by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: familyop
The rising price of oil is a natural part of the market cycle. We did not become an oil based economy over night, we will not stop being an oil based economy overnite.

There is going to have to be some market incentive to develop both domestic oil sources and alternative fuels. That is going to require some changes in how our economy works. The rising price of gas is one of those market forces in action. Screaming for cheap gas forever is stupid. It is not going to happen.

Funny oh the same Dinocons who so loudly scream about “Big Govt” turn right around and demand the Govt do something to keep gas cheap for them. Govt is NOT the solution, govt is the PROBLEM. They all ready interfere far too much in the production of energy. The best thing they could do is stream line the regulatory process and get out of the way

Give you an example. A massive rig called Blind Faith is going into production in the Gulf. It cost over $1 Billion and took 7 years to go from concept to production. We need 160 more rigs like it just to replace what we import daily at current levels of usage!

If the cost of making that sort of domestic production cost effective is $5.00 a gallon gas Americans should be HAPPY to pay it.

$5.00-$10.00 a gallon gas is a heck of a lot cheaper price to pay then the price in blood and treasure we have spent over the last 35 years policing the Middle East!

The Saudis are in the process of cutting their own throat. We should be GLAD they are doing it, not crying about it.

20 posted on 11/25/2007 4:13:54 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Ever notice that liberals are fierce in stealing YOUR money, while never paying their “fair share")
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To: familyop
The Fed is devaluing the Dollar as fast as it can.

This is why it takes more to buy the same amount of oil.

When a product is a dog it moves from Macy's to the Family Dollar Store where it is heavily discounted.

Look out here comes the Fed again, lowering interest rates, telling the world that the Dollar belongs at the Flea Market.

23 posted on 11/25/2007 6:01:00 AM PST by Mark was here (Hard work never killed anyone, but why take the chance?)
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To: familyop
No new nuclear plants or refineries for over 30 years. We have 250 years worth of cheap coal, an energy source free from OPEC and disruption by war, ready for gasification.

Two generations of politicians and eco-freaks are responsible for our tight energy supplies. At some point, perhaps when gas reaches $5/gall, when plastics and food prices double, perhaps the people will get rid of the grandstanding blowhards and elect people who put their country first.

24 posted on 11/25/2007 6:03:12 AM PST by Jacquerie (All Muslims are suspect.)
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To: familyop

I can’t disagree with anything in this article - as far as it goes. Aliphatic hydrocarbons, including all petroleum-based fuels - are remarkably simple compounds. A chain of carbon atoms, (atomic weight 12) either straight or with short branches, with hydrogen atoms (atomic weight 1) attached to each open bonding point on the chain. Each carbon has exactly 4 bonding points, so the general formula looks like:

H-(CH2)n-H

“n” is a number from 1 to 30 or 40 or so, and defines the total length of the carbon chain.

n=1 defines Methane (CH4), the active ingredient of natural gas. A single carbon with 4 hydrogens, it is 25% hydrogen by weight.

N=3 defines Propane (C3H8). Its molecular weight is 44, and it contains 18.2% hydrogen by weight. Propane is produced as a “petroleum liquid” - a byproduct of refining crude oil - and is used almost exclusively as a fuel. It is a gas at ambient temperatures, but easily liquified by moderate pressure - less than 200 PSI.) It boils at -44F, and has a critical pressure of 625 PSI at its critical temperature of 205F.

Liquid propane at 70F has a density of .51, or 4.2 pounds per gallon. Thus a gallon of liquid propane contains 0.765 pounds of hydrogen, at ambient temperature and a pressure of less than 300 PSI.

n=4, 5, 6, or 7 - Butane, hexane, pentane, and heptane - are similar compounds, with properties that are progressively more like gasoline and less like propane. Small amounts of each are commonly included in the mixture sold as gasoline.

n=8 - Octane (C8H18)- is the prototypical gasoline molecule. The pure iso-octane molecule is highly branched - something like the diagram below, if you ignore the underscores and extra dashes, which are there for spacing only. Each carbon has 4 connection points, and at least 1 of those must connect to another carbon.

________H__________H
__H__H-C-H______H-C-H__H
H-C——C —————C——C-H
__H__H-C-H______H-C-H__H
________H__________H

But the formula is still the same, and so is the energy content when it burns in air. Octane is 15.8 percent (18/114) hydrogen, and has a density of 0.703, or 5.625 pounds per gallon, which contains 0.888 pounds of hydrogen! LIQUID hydrogen has a density of 0.071, or 0.568 pounds per gallon - at a temperature of -465F and a pressure of about 180 PSI.

Thus GASOLINE is a cheaper and safer way to store hydrogen than as pure liquid hydrogen, and the same size tank holds more than 56% MORE HYDROGEN than the pure liquid! It certainly does weigh more, by about 5.1 pounds per gallon, but it also contains the combustible carbon, which can be burned in air for additional usable energy.

n=9 or more - these are the heavier, less volatile components, and are present in crude oil in varying amounts. These heavier oils, even in low concentrations, are an important part of diesel fuels, where they provide “lubricity” at the higher compression levels found in diesel engines. Higher compression produces greater efficiency - by as much as 50%.

As a result, I believe that the fuel of the future is almost identical to the fuel of today - middle-weight liquid hydrocarbons. Except for truly exotic applications, such as access to space, pure-hydrogen fuel is a pure boondoggle - a sinecure for scientists to while away a research career that will never produce a worthwhile technological solution.

What will change is the source of these hydrocarbon fuels. Today we find, extract, and refine crude oil, whis already in the form of a hydrocarbon mixture. But it is such a simple molecule that we could synthesize it, from simple raw materials - hydrogen from ocean water and carbon from coal, organic wastes, limestone deposits, or even atmospheric carbon dioxide, like plants do. Plus the key ingredient; large amounts of energy, from any of several sources. These include direct solar energy, collected as electricity, concentrated thermal energy, or even photosynthesis; nuclear, as heat or electricity; and hydroelectric, wind, tidal, and geothermal, collected as electricity.

Such synthesized products would no longer be primary fuels, releasing energy that was present in the original raw materials. They will be energy VECTORS, a method of transferring energy from a primary source to a secondary application. And we will have to pay for that energy content that we have been getting without cost. But we will pay for it, whenever we feel that our need or desire for such convenient and portable energy is worth the cost. Because we certainly can and will develop the means to produce hydrocarbon transportation fuels, because that is the only way we are going to fly in airplanes or drive in private cars.

Take note - a major sector of commercial transportation ALREADY operates almost 100% on hybrid technology, and could be moved to stationary power generation whenever it makes economic sense to do so. Our trains run by electric motors driving the wheels, and some of them get their electricity from trolleys or third rails, although most generate it on board using diesel powered generator sets. Electrifying the tracks would reduce our diesel consumption significantly, shifting it primarily to coal and nuclear electric generation.


34 posted on 11/25/2007 1:52:41 PM PST by MainFrame65 (The US Senate: World's greatest PREVARICATIVE body!)
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To: familyop

NYMEX crude is 98.66 right now, up 0.48

The rest of the article can safely be ignored.


37 posted on 11/25/2007 4:16:07 PM PST by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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To: familyop; cogitator

This is why we WON’T be doomed by Anthropogenic Global Warming from burning fossil fuels. As the prices rise, people will naturally begin to conserve, thus putting a brake on carbon emissions.

Just simply let people develop these resources, then, as they get used, the price goes up, and people start to conserve, reducing the carbon emissions.


44 posted on 11/25/2007 5:55:30 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Repeal the Terrible Two - the 16th and 17th Amendments. Sink LOST! Stop SPP!)
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To: familyop

Send Al Gore on a lecture series to China and India.


51 posted on 11/26/2007 10:12:00 AM PST by P.O.E.
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