Posted on 11/17/2007 7:33:50 AM PST by Dubya
The Pasadena man who killed two suspected burglars as they left his next-door neighbor's home did not intend to kill them when he stepped outside with his 12-gauge shotgun, his lawyer said Friday.
In portraying Joe Horn as a victim of circumstances, lawyer and longtime friend Tom Lambright called the 61-year-old computer consultant "a good family man" who has been devastated by the Wednesday afternoon burglary and shooting.
Killed in the incident in the 7400 block of Timberline were Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of Houston.
Each had a minor previous brush with the law. Records show DeJesus was charged with failure to identify himself to a police officer in July 2004. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 20 days in jail. Ortiz was charged with possession of marijuana in July 2005, but it was later dismissed.
"He (Horn) was just doing what everyone is supposed to do," Lambright said at a news conference in front of the Houston police memorial near downtown. "He called the police. He was cooperating with them as best he could, trying to give the police the direction of the burglars. He knew there was danger going outside."
Horn ignored repeated instructions from a 911 dispatcher to remain in his home. He told the dispatcher, "I'm not going to let them get away with it. I can't take a chance in getting killed over this. OK? I'm gonna shoot. I'm gonna shoot."
While lawyers and legal experts across the city continued to debate the legality of Horn's actions, he has left town with his family, Lambright said.
"Hopefully he will see a doctor and maybe get a sedative," he said. "He is not well mentally. This has devastated him. Not in his wildest dreams could he fathom this event."
Lambright said Horn, whom he has considered a friend for 41 years, wept inconsolably during their conversations.
"Joe is the absolute opposite of what everyone thinks he is," Lambright said. "He is not a cowboy. He is not physical. He's 61 years old and overweight. He's not confrontational. He's just a good guy."
Lambright read a written statement in which Horn said the killings would "weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life. My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased."
Lambright said Horn was a hunter, but kept the shotgun in his pickup "for security."
No firearms in house Horn lives with his daughter and granddaughter and does not keep firearms in the house, his lawyer said.
Lambright said Horn was upstairs working at a computer about 2 p.m. when he heard the sound of breaking glass next door. Horn called 911, engaging in a protracted conversation with the dispatcher, who repeatedly advised him to wait inside until police arrived.
"Mr. Horn, do not go outside the house. You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun," the dispatcher told Horn at one point.
"You wanna make a bet," Horn responded. "I'm gonna kill them. They're gonna get away."
Legal opinions conflict Lambright contended that Horn was startled to find the burglars just 15 feet from his front door when he stepped onto his porch. "He was petrified at that point," the lawyer said. "You hear him say, 'I'll shoot. Stop!' They jumped. Joe thought they were coming for him. It's a self-defense issue."
Attorneys and legal experts said Horn's defense probably will be based on state law that allows people to use deadly force to protect neighbors' property.
"If you see someone stealing your neighbor's property, you can get involved and help to stop it," said Sandra Guerra Thompson, a law professor at the University of Houston Law Center.
Others disagreed.
The statutes that allow people to use deadly force to stop a burglary appear to require that the incident be occurring at night, said Craig Jett, a Dallas criminal defense attorney and president of the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyer's Association.
"It can't be during the day," Jett said.
Experts said that a grand jury may sympathize with Horn. Some people believe that you should be able to protect your neighborhood, said Anthony Osso, a Houston criminal defense attorney.
Osso said that Horn's defense might be that he wanted to prevent the robbers from leaving until police arrived, but they tried to flee and he shot them.
"His best scenario is that he went out to use the threat of deadly force," Osso said. "But they came at him on his own property."
Osso said Horn's 911 call does not tell the whole story about the shooting. Investigators will need information about where the suspects were shot and if they had stopped when Horn ordered them not to move.
"Some people on the grand jury will sympathize with him," said Adam Gershowitz, a law professor at South Texas College of Law. "Maybe he shouldn't have done this, but he was acting in a way a lot of people feel."
But that does not mean he won't be charged, Gershowitz added.
"There's a reason we don't let people take the law into their own hands," he said. "We have a police force for that. As an established society, we believe we are better off with an authorized police force that has standards and training rather than untrained vigilantes."
A transcript of the 911 call suggests Horn intended to do what he felt necessary to stop the burglars. Despite a concerted effort by the dispatcher to persuade him to let police deal with the break-in, Horn was insistent on trying keep them from getting away.
"I don't want you going outside, Mr. Horn," the dispatcher said.
"Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn said. "You hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going."
Seconds later three shotgun blasts are heard.
Praise for dispatcher Experts who reviewed a recording of the call at the Chronicle's request said the dispatcher handled the call professionally and did all he could to defuse the situation until police arrived.
"He was doing everything he could to 'normalize' the conversation and not agitate the caller any further," said Sue Pivetta, a training consultant from Sumner, Wash. "Trust me when I say that he was indeed showing professional control at the highest level."
Charles Carter, a former police executive in Atlanta who has trained dispatchers for two decades, said the officer who handled Horn's call used proven techniques to dissuade him from leaving his home.
"We teach a technique called repetitive persistence," Carter said. "It needs to be at a level lower than the person calling to try to get him to calm down and listen to you. ... He did an outstanding job and needs to be commended."
Chronicle reporters Mike Tolson and Ruth Rendon contributed to this report.
allan.turner@chron.com
dale.lezon@chron.com
Yes, I suppose it was short-sighted of me and I was biased by my own perceptions. If the men are not armed, I am not going to feel threatened as a general rule. So , I overlooked the fact that many would.
The fact remains the man could have stayed in his home. He was repeatedly advised to do so. He had no idea who or how many were out there and if nothing else he was incredibly ignorant. He had no idea if he went out the front door 2 more could have came in his back door. He didn't seem to be in control and he could have been hurt or killed himself. As it stands now, he has the killing of two men to think about the rest of his life and a possibility he will have to serve some prison time. His equivocating now that he didn't intend to kill them doesn't coincide with the facts.
If he left his home with a shotgun, ignoring advice to the contrary, armed with a shotgun, going into a possible hostile and lethal situation; He had better have some intentions of killing someone. I think what doesn't bode well for the man is he told the 911 dispatcher that he was going to kill them. Whether or not they made an aggressive move towards him, I can't say, but that would certainly give him the right to use lethal force. We have no idea because dead men tell no tales.
-you know the dispatcher put the idea into the man’s head that he COULD be shot if he went outside....that sounds to me like it heightened the man’s fear of being shot so that he was more likely to shoot first ask questions later.
Meanwhile....over at the far side of reality, the DUmmies were mouthing just what I expected. Stating that he “sounded excited.”, that he was looking forward to it, etc. And of course, many of them take issue with “taking a human life over property.”
Your post #37: VERY well said!!! Bravo!!!!!!
The modern liberal idea that it's just stealing and that doesn't justify doing anything about it is exactly why our "sane society" has so damned many thieves.
They also give the burglary crowd something to think about next time.
Yep, just here to burgle the homes Americans won't burgle...
El Presidente Jorge Bush, is doing MORE to defend Islamists who wish to destroy us - than defending our own citizens from the illegal alien invasion...
NOTE: More Americans are KILLED EACH YEAR by illegal aliens than the TOTAL killed fighting the war in the Middle East for over 4 YEARS.
That is a fact the MSM and El Presidente Jorge Bush is keeping from Americans.....
I would love to see a truthful analysis of the total cost to America from the impact of illegal immigration...
I wouldn't be surprised to see the cost approaching that of fighting the war in the middle east.
It’ll sure cut down on brazen daylignt B&E’s, if burglars understand it could get them killed.
I agree, but like you said it is done now. I heard the man on the 911 tapes and he comes off as a bit of an idiot. At 2pm in the afternoon I sure don’t want him firing a shotgun in my neighborhood at other idiots taking “things” from neighbors he didn’t even know.
I am reminded of the cop who was shooting a snake and shot and killed a little boy while he was fishing. Whenever I target shoot I go to the country, but I make sure to clear the area just in case there is a ricochet or deflection outside the banked area. At least he had a shotgun and not some high velocity rifle and that makes me think a little better of his judgment. I have seen a lot of this, old guys firing weapons at people, with little kids playing nearby and I do mean seen it a lot. I suppose my accumulated experiences and knowledge of firearms tends to make me harder on the guy than I normally would be. I don’t think he will get more than a slap on the wrist, if that. Even though his actions were incredibly stupid imo.
I am very interested in that type of information concerning illegals. Do you have a link or some source I could reference? I can never find anything credible and I always figure there is a very good reason for that; The “powers that be” don’t want us to know.
Yup - two young thugs against an old man? They could have knocked him down and kicked his skull in without a gun.
That's all I need to hear. He feared for his life. Off the scum before they pull out an illegally concealed gun and kill the good guy.
It’s already been established that the police do not have a responsibility to protect us.
So their job is to draw the chalk outlines after an unarmed civilian confronts a burglar.
Glad you agree with my post #32:
It also may be a good argument for what Mr. Horn ended up doing. After all, if a trained member of the police department, who listens to these type of calls day in and day out, THINKS that the perps are likely armed, and may shoot a citizen who confronts them, then Mr. Horn SHOULD believe it and be prepared to respond.
He WAS prepared.
He DID respond.
The lawyers don't make millions off of the tax payer if the perps are dead and buried. Hence this going after the citizen.
Thing is the guy already shot and killed a couple of guys. Future burglars already know about his guns.
Yet, he said he stepped outside and there they were.
Maybe he had a secret gun inside he hadn't told his wife about.
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