Posted on 11/17/2007 7:33:50 AM PST by Dubya
The Pasadena man who killed two suspected burglars as they left his next-door neighbor's home did not intend to kill them when he stepped outside with his 12-gauge shotgun, his lawyer said Friday.
In portraying Joe Horn as a victim of circumstances, lawyer and longtime friend Tom Lambright called the 61-year-old computer consultant "a good family man" who has been devastated by the Wednesday afternoon burglary and shooting.
Killed in the incident in the 7400 block of Timberline were Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of Houston.
Each had a minor previous brush with the law. Records show DeJesus was charged with failure to identify himself to a police officer in July 2004. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 20 days in jail. Ortiz was charged with possession of marijuana in July 2005, but it was later dismissed.
"He (Horn) was just doing what everyone is supposed to do," Lambright said at a news conference in front of the Houston police memorial near downtown. "He called the police. He was cooperating with them as best he could, trying to give the police the direction of the burglars. He knew there was danger going outside."
Horn ignored repeated instructions from a 911 dispatcher to remain in his home. He told the dispatcher, "I'm not going to let them get away with it. I can't take a chance in getting killed over this. OK? I'm gonna shoot. I'm gonna shoot."
While lawyers and legal experts across the city continued to debate the legality of Horn's actions, he has left town with his family, Lambright said.
"Hopefully he will see a doctor and maybe get a sedative," he said. "He is not well mentally. This has devastated him. Not in his wildest dreams could he fathom this event."
Lambright said Horn, whom he has considered a friend for 41 years, wept inconsolably during their conversations.
"Joe is the absolute opposite of what everyone thinks he is," Lambright said. "He is not a cowboy. He is not physical. He's 61 years old and overweight. He's not confrontational. He's just a good guy."
Lambright read a written statement in which Horn said the killings would "weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life. My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased."
Lambright said Horn was a hunter, but kept the shotgun in his pickup "for security."
No firearms in house Horn lives with his daughter and granddaughter and does not keep firearms in the house, his lawyer said.
Lambright said Horn was upstairs working at a computer about 2 p.m. when he heard the sound of breaking glass next door. Horn called 911, engaging in a protracted conversation with the dispatcher, who repeatedly advised him to wait inside until police arrived.
"Mr. Horn, do not go outside the house. You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun," the dispatcher told Horn at one point.
"You wanna make a bet," Horn responded. "I'm gonna kill them. They're gonna get away."
Legal opinions conflict Lambright contended that Horn was startled to find the burglars just 15 feet from his front door when he stepped onto his porch. "He was petrified at that point," the lawyer said. "You hear him say, 'I'll shoot. Stop!' They jumped. Joe thought they were coming for him. It's a self-defense issue."
Attorneys and legal experts said Horn's defense probably will be based on state law that allows people to use deadly force to protect neighbors' property.
"If you see someone stealing your neighbor's property, you can get involved and help to stop it," said Sandra Guerra Thompson, a law professor at the University of Houston Law Center.
Others disagreed.
The statutes that allow people to use deadly force to stop a burglary appear to require that the incident be occurring at night, said Craig Jett, a Dallas criminal defense attorney and president of the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyer's Association.
"It can't be during the day," Jett said.
Experts said that a grand jury may sympathize with Horn. Some people believe that you should be able to protect your neighborhood, said Anthony Osso, a Houston criminal defense attorney.
Osso said that Horn's defense might be that he wanted to prevent the robbers from leaving until police arrived, but they tried to flee and he shot them.
"His best scenario is that he went out to use the threat of deadly force," Osso said. "But they came at him on his own property."
Osso said Horn's 911 call does not tell the whole story about the shooting. Investigators will need information about where the suspects were shot and if they had stopped when Horn ordered them not to move.
"Some people on the grand jury will sympathize with him," said Adam Gershowitz, a law professor at South Texas College of Law. "Maybe he shouldn't have done this, but he was acting in a way a lot of people feel."
But that does not mean he won't be charged, Gershowitz added.
"There's a reason we don't let people take the law into their own hands," he said. "We have a police force for that. As an established society, we believe we are better off with an authorized police force that has standards and training rather than untrained vigilantes."
A transcript of the 911 call suggests Horn intended to do what he felt necessary to stop the burglars. Despite a concerted effort by the dispatcher to persuade him to let police deal with the break-in, Horn was insistent on trying keep them from getting away.
"I don't want you going outside, Mr. Horn," the dispatcher said.
"Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn said. "You hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going."
Seconds later three shotgun blasts are heard.
Praise for dispatcher Experts who reviewed a recording of the call at the Chronicle's request said the dispatcher handled the call professionally and did all he could to defuse the situation until police arrived.
"He was doing everything he could to 'normalize' the conversation and not agitate the caller any further," said Sue Pivetta, a training consultant from Sumner, Wash. "Trust me when I say that he was indeed showing professional control at the highest level."
Charles Carter, a former police executive in Atlanta who has trained dispatchers for two decades, said the officer who handled Horn's call used proven techniques to dissuade him from leaving his home.
"We teach a technique called repetitive persistence," Carter said. "It needs to be at a level lower than the person calling to try to get him to calm down and listen to you. ... He did an outstanding job and needs to be commended."
Chronicle reporters Mike Tolson and Ruth Rendon contributed to this report.
allan.turner@chron.com
dale.lezon@chron.com
THE CALL TO 911 ( “They got a bag of loot, I’m gonna kill’em” )
“The Shooting”
http://images.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/07/audio/911shooting/shooting.mp3
“Entire call with the shooting”
http://images.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/07/audio/911shooting/whole.mp3
“After the shooting”
http://images.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/07/audio/911shooting/after.mp3
All folks in the US need to be able to understand simple English and be able to follow a few basic commands.
Undoubtedly the perps and their friends and family now have a better understanding of the compassionate Commandment "Thou shalt not steal."
Oh yeah, the cops are really good at taking down information about the crime that was committed before they arrived on the scene.
When my parents home was burglarized while they were having Thanksgiving dinner with us twenty-odd years ago, the cops who "investigated" told my Mom that she might as well call her insurance company and then forget about ever getting back any of the thousands of dollars worth of collectible coins, jewelry, cash, and other loot that was taken. Unfortunately, their lousy homeowners policy didn't cover the coin collection or most of the other non-household items that were stolen.
The cops were very good at writing down all the details and taking photos of the damage caused by the break-in. But they were never heard from again except when my Mom called to ask about their progress on the case, which was zilch, and my parents' stolen property was probably on display in a pawn shop showcase before the "investigators" got back to the station house.
While I realize that a burglary like that is a low priority crime AFA the cops are concerned and is difficult to solve, it's infuriating to hear someone recommend that we cower unarmed in a closet while our homes are being wrecked and ravaged by thugs and and just let the cops handle everything. My g-g-grandmother didn't run and hide when a Seminole raiding party came to her FL wilderness farm to steal pigs and chickens while my g-g-grandfather was off fighting Yankees in faraway Tennessee. According to my long-deceased g-grandmother, who was just an anklebiter at the time, her mother confronted them with a muzzle-loading shotgun and took care of business herself.
Acts like these only gives the anti gun crowd something to work with.
If they were that close to his front door I wonder if his house was next?
There is a Link to the law and it does say that, also says you need approval of the home owner to protect their property. Mr Horn said he didn't know his neighbors.
The 15 feet thing was a statement by the man's attorney, I'd bet he has never been to the yard, and doesn't really know, he's setting up the home defense. I think another article says one was dead in the yard of the neighbor and another one was down the street.
Well, until proven otherwise, I’ll give more weight to the citizen’s statement than, the special interest groups.
This is the twisted logic and "sheeple" mentality that government bureaucrats try and push on us.
It also may be a good argument for what Mr. Horn ended up doing. After all, if a trained member of the police department, who listens to these type of calls day in and day out, THINKS that the perps are likely armed, and may shoot a citizen who confronts them, then Mr. Horn SHOULD believe it and be prepared to respond.
He WAS prepared.
He DID respond.
Good for him, relieving society of two more criminal, scumbag predators.
If I have to confront two such criminals, I will be reasonably certain that it is I that will prevail over two boyz from dee hood (that's why so many innocent people get killed in the hood, the bastards can't hit the broad side of a barn).
I am well trained and prepared to protect my life and property, and that of my family, friends, and neighbors if need be.
THAT is what being a good citizen is all about, and what our Founders intended.
How do you know they were "fleeing the scene"?
And even if they were, they are just the type of predatory scumbags that will keep getting away with crimes until someone innocent gets killed at their hands.
Better to teach THEM a lasting lesson, and let THEM (the FAR from innocent) be the ones to get killed so that society can be free of at least TWO more predatory scumbags.
Thank you Mr. Horn. Besides stopping the theft of your neighbor's hard earned (something the perps apparently don't have a concept of) property, you have likely saved future innocent lives.
It would definitely happen here in Pennsylvania, too. "Pennsylvania is nothing but Philadelphia at one end, Pittsburgh at the other end, and Alabama in between." - James Carville
JMO but I think he might have intended to just detain them and was just talking tough guy to someone that wanted him to hide. As we get older and/or stressed we seem to do this more for some reason. When he actually confronted them he probably only then realized he was in danger.
The anti-gun scumbags will ALWAYS find "something to work with", given THEIR definitions of firearms, what is "reasonable" and "sensible", etc.
It is not incumbent upon US, as a free people with a RIGHT to keep and bear arms, to worry about what THEY might say or do.
It is incumbent upon us to do the RIGHT THING.
Ridding society of scum, and making them PAY for their anti-social actions, IS...
The RIGHT THING.
Thank you Mr. Horn, for MAKING these criminal predators experience the consequences of THEIR actions.
I'm sure, at 15 feet, the thugs looked bigger and more menacing than they had climbing into and out of his neighbor's window at a distance.
All we can hope is that Mr. Horn didn't use the "n" word (forensic audio scientists at the FBI are likely scouring the 911 tape as we speak) as he pulled the trigger, because then, he's TOAST.
As we know, that would then become a MUCH worse thing than merely killing the criminal thugs, it would be a HATE crime against two minority members of society just trying to make a decent living. /sarc
911 training is pretty creepy. Most of it is about manipulating the caller. Why don't they just train them how to send in the cops in a timely manner and to collect sufficient information so the cops can find the place quickly and don't kill innocent family members.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.