Posted on 11/17/2007 7:33:50 AM PST by Dubya
The Pasadena man who killed two suspected burglars as they left his next-door neighbor's home did not intend to kill them when he stepped outside with his 12-gauge shotgun, his lawyer said Friday.
In portraying Joe Horn as a victim of circumstances, lawyer and longtime friend Tom Lambright called the 61-year-old computer consultant "a good family man" who has been devastated by the Wednesday afternoon burglary and shooting.
Killed in the incident in the 7400 block of Timberline were Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of Houston.
Each had a minor previous brush with the law. Records show DeJesus was charged with failure to identify himself to a police officer in July 2004. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 20 days in jail. Ortiz was charged with possession of marijuana in July 2005, but it was later dismissed.
"He (Horn) was just doing what everyone is supposed to do," Lambright said at a news conference in front of the Houston police memorial near downtown. "He called the police. He was cooperating with them as best he could, trying to give the police the direction of the burglars. He knew there was danger going outside."
Horn ignored repeated instructions from a 911 dispatcher to remain in his home. He told the dispatcher, "I'm not going to let them get away with it. I can't take a chance in getting killed over this. OK? I'm gonna shoot. I'm gonna shoot."
While lawyers and legal experts across the city continued to debate the legality of Horn's actions, he has left town with his family, Lambright said.
"Hopefully he will see a doctor and maybe get a sedative," he said. "He is not well mentally. This has devastated him. Not in his wildest dreams could he fathom this event."
Lambright said Horn, whom he has considered a friend for 41 years, wept inconsolably during their conversations.
"Joe is the absolute opposite of what everyone thinks he is," Lambright said. "He is not a cowboy. He is not physical. He's 61 years old and overweight. He's not confrontational. He's just a good guy."
Lambright read a written statement in which Horn said the killings would "weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life. My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased."
Lambright said Horn was a hunter, but kept the shotgun in his pickup "for security."
No firearms in house Horn lives with his daughter and granddaughter and does not keep firearms in the house, his lawyer said.
Lambright said Horn was upstairs working at a computer about 2 p.m. when he heard the sound of breaking glass next door. Horn called 911, engaging in a protracted conversation with the dispatcher, who repeatedly advised him to wait inside until police arrived.
"Mr. Horn, do not go outside the house. You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun," the dispatcher told Horn at one point.
"You wanna make a bet," Horn responded. "I'm gonna kill them. They're gonna get away."
Legal opinions conflict Lambright contended that Horn was startled to find the burglars just 15 feet from his front door when he stepped onto his porch. "He was petrified at that point," the lawyer said. "You hear him say, 'I'll shoot. Stop!' They jumped. Joe thought they were coming for him. It's a self-defense issue."
Attorneys and legal experts said Horn's defense probably will be based on state law that allows people to use deadly force to protect neighbors' property.
"If you see someone stealing your neighbor's property, you can get involved and help to stop it," said Sandra Guerra Thompson, a law professor at the University of Houston Law Center.
Others disagreed.
The statutes that allow people to use deadly force to stop a burglary appear to require that the incident be occurring at night, said Craig Jett, a Dallas criminal defense attorney and president of the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyer's Association.
"It can't be during the day," Jett said.
Experts said that a grand jury may sympathize with Horn. Some people believe that you should be able to protect your neighborhood, said Anthony Osso, a Houston criminal defense attorney.
Osso said that Horn's defense might be that he wanted to prevent the robbers from leaving until police arrived, but they tried to flee and he shot them.
"His best scenario is that he went out to use the threat of deadly force," Osso said. "But they came at him on his own property."
Osso said Horn's 911 call does not tell the whole story about the shooting. Investigators will need information about where the suspects were shot and if they had stopped when Horn ordered them not to move.
"Some people on the grand jury will sympathize with him," said Adam Gershowitz, a law professor at South Texas College of Law. "Maybe he shouldn't have done this, but he was acting in a way a lot of people feel."
But that does not mean he won't be charged, Gershowitz added.
"There's a reason we don't let people take the law into their own hands," he said. "We have a police force for that. As an established society, we believe we are better off with an authorized police force that has standards and training rather than untrained vigilantes."
A transcript of the 911 call suggests Horn intended to do what he felt necessary to stop the burglars. Despite a concerted effort by the dispatcher to persuade him to let police deal with the break-in, Horn was insistent on trying keep them from getting away.
"I don't want you going outside, Mr. Horn," the dispatcher said.
"Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn said. "You hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going."
Seconds later three shotgun blasts are heard.
Praise for dispatcher Experts who reviewed a recording of the call at the Chronicle's request said the dispatcher handled the call professionally and did all he could to defuse the situation until police arrived.
"He was doing everything he could to 'normalize' the conversation and not agitate the caller any further," said Sue Pivetta, a training consultant from Sumner, Wash. "Trust me when I say that he was indeed showing professional control at the highest level."
Charles Carter, a former police executive in Atlanta who has trained dispatchers for two decades, said the officer who handled Horn's call used proven techniques to dissuade him from leaving his home.
"We teach a technique called repetitive persistence," Carter said. "It needs to be at a level lower than the person calling to try to get him to calm down and listen to you. ... He did an outstanding job and needs to be commended."
Chronicle reporters Mike Tolson and Ruth Rendon contributed to this report.
allan.turner@chron.com
dale.lezon@chron.com
Yes, of course, you're right. I realize the better part of what I have written is supposition. That is the very nature of these threads, for the most part. I just try to be as objective as is possible for any human as we all come with our own biases and life experiences.
My main point of contentions are based on my personal beliefs, mores and personal experience. My frame of reference can only be my neighborhoods because that is what I know. I have been home at 2pm and I know what my neighborhoods feel and look like at that time. I do not see it as a place or time where a man should be discharging a weapon when it was not necessary.
I realize what Texas Law states regarding this incident. Yet, in the end, we will all answer to a far greater authority than Texas and I am not sure killing people over "things" is something I would want to have to defend. I am against illegal immigration of any kind by anyone, for any reason. As a matter of fact, I support the only candidate for President who has really done anything to stop illegal immigration.
I am not sure illegal immigration is at issue here, but I suppose we will find out.....maybe. My message to illegals is "you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here". That said, their lives are of no less value in the eyes of God. Mainly, I don't want this man turned into some kind of hero. As of now, I find his actions of poor judgment and without honor.
Most likely the Grand Jury will do just that. Historically, Texas Grand Juries show every sympathy to the law abiding defender, giving them the full benefit of the doubt that the law allows, and very little sympathy to the thieves, burglars, and rapists that they shoot.
Doesn't matter if they were as naked as jaybirds. Texas law allows the use of deadly force to protect property, yours or someone else's. The grand jury will decide if the facts of this encounter are such that the conditions that the law allows for use of deadly force are justified or not. But as the article hints, there may be some component of self defense as well.
My prediction is that they will decide just that. I assume the DA wants to be reelected, and will not work too hard to convince the Grand Jury to do otherwise.
Law enforcement may or not be able to shoot people fleeing the scene, but citizens who witness the crime most certainly are in many cases.
Likely from his truck, probably in the garage.
I guess we are just a bunch of crazy Texans, because Texas law states pretty much that. Texas Penal Code sections 9.41, 9.42, and 9.43 Check it out.
Listening to the tape, it's quite clear he went out ready to shoot if he had to, but not intending to do so. He went out to stop them from getting away. He did that too.
They don't have attached garages where you live?
BTW, here are the photos of the now departed perps. Easy to see why the man thought they were Black, rather than Hispanic.
The article at this link; indicates that the younger of the two perps had "multiple" misdemeanors, and I'll bet they weren't for jaywalking.
No it doesn't. Only theft and criminal mischief must be "during the nighttime. (Because during the nighttime the threat to oneself is much higher, and the fine distinction between theft and burglary or robbery may be more difficult to discern.) The "during the nighttime" business isn't just something Texas invented, its in the Bible, albeit in a little different form. The "approval of owner" clause it "OR"ed with other clauses, the first of which seems to cover this case. Of course if the perps rushed the guy, or the situation was such that a reasonable person would feel threatened, then the defense of property thing is out the window anyway, and it's then self defense.
The fact that he "went in harm's way", into his own front yard, is of no consequence as far as the law, rather than prudence, is concerned. HE was not where he should not have been, the now departed perps were.
Well, since he did yell, quite clearly on the tape, "Move and you're dead", that would seem to be the case, there was even a reasonably long pause between that and the first "boom".
My prediction, unless some new facts come to light, another Grand Jury "No Bill".
The first is mostly a function of how far away the closest available unit is when the call comes in, although the priority of that the dispatcher attaches to the dispatch also may be a factor.
I'm sure we've all heard the apocryphal story about the guy who dials 911 over a break in and is told that no units are immediately available. Then calls back saying he's just shot one of the perps, which gets a whole bunch of units there right quick. When it turns out he didn't shoot the perps, the officer says, "I thought you said you shot someone", wherein the victim responds "I thought you said no units were available".
The moral of that story is that the defender has no way of knowing how long it might be before the police or sheriff arrive.
Since no one but the perps got hit, how do you know that the defender didn't?
I don't think think the TelCo sound quality is good enough that you can reliably tell the difference, which can only be due to barrel length, not brand name. (Mossberg doesn't just make "defense" type shotguns, nor does the Remington 870 only come in 24-32 inch barrel lengths, I've hunted with guy using a Wingmaster with a 21 inch barrel. Another guy in the party asked if he intended to hunt pheasants, or rob a bank. :) FWIW, he and I each got one rooster that morning ).
Other stories report there was a large amount of cash in the bag.
However that is not material to the law.
Other stories indicate he retrived it from the truck, which was in the garage, when the whole incident started. I would expect right after he saw the scum break into his neighbor's house.
Well, if push really does come to shove to the point where you are drawing from US military, including reserve and guard, ammunition stocks, then I imagine If you "need one there will be plenty laying around" (Sergeant Major Basil Plumley as portrayed by Sam Elliot). Plenty of rifles and pistols that is.
I think he retrieved the gun from the truck after he saw the burglars break in. That may have been before or after he called 911. He may even have been going to the garage to retrieve it as he was talking to the dispatcher. He racked the slide just before he said he was going outside, that much you can hear on the audio record.
12 gauge is a standard military round. Not as commonly issued as 5.56 or even 9mm, but they are using it, in a couple of different configurations, one for door breaching, one for room clearing, in the current war with the Islamofacists.
Some of the reports on the internet by folks in the immediate area suggest there's a question about whether or not there was any crime other than the shootings.
Yea, taking refuge with indigenous Danes in what appears to be a fairly nice neighborhood, with largish and newish houses. So new that on Live Search Maps, the highest resolution shows considerably fewer houses in the neighborhood than the next lower resolution. A lot of the houses appear to have pools in the back as well. Just a hell hole of illegal immigrant housing.[/s
Yup, some illegals live well. Sounds like this potential illegal has not yet defaulted on his subprime mortgage.
LOL :) Yes, you are absolutely right. I should have been more clear. I was referring to the sound of the “pump action” itself and not the report. You are also correct about TelCom sound quality, but when you have heard the actions enough they all tend to have a unique sound.
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