Posted on 11/16/2007 5:58:25 PM PST by mngran2
In other words, desertions after five years of conflict under President Bush, not as high as after four years under democrat Jimminy Carter.
Nope. I am not buying that argument. You raise your hand ans swear to uphold and defend. If you choose to weasel out, that is no one’s problem and failure but yours.
Yeah, I know what you’re talking about. I agree.
Actually I was referring to Clinton’s massive cuts in the military in his pursuit of the “Peace Dividend”.
Didn't read this PmsNBC piece of crap, but does this "desertion" percentage include soldiers who just "deserted" for an overnight drunken binge.
Does it count "deserters who were just unaccounted for several hours, and then returned to base.
Or are these "deserters' really soldiers who consciously tried to bolt from base, never to return?
Methinks statistics can be massaged to say anything you want.
And lastly, "desertion" usually does go up in times of open combat, as a certain percentage of soldiers get cold feet.
Does that make it OK?
Certainly not. But compared to the Clinton twiddle-your-thumbs peacetime, these times certainly are much more stressful for the average soldier.
Hmmm..I forgot about that (it worked so well!).
I hate these dumb ass articles the leftest media cranks out to subvert the military and the country. We could have gone from one desertion to two desertions. That would be a 100% increase and look really bad!
I don't like Peanut a bit. But Peanut reduced desertion and AWOL which was rampant when he took office. It had began under a Ford/Rummy plan of let them walk off and get out policy. IIRC Rummy put that policy in effect under Junior as well IIRC. It didn't work and it caused major problems that extended into the Carter years until addressed.
Actually Carter put an end to the 30 day instant civilian fiasco. If you went AWOL or deserted as soon as you turned yourself in or were caught you went to a Court Martial if desertion. At that time you would be awarded a BCD, brig time, and have AWOL plus brig time tacked on to your obligation which you were still required to finish. It worked.
This also gave the offending serviceman a chance to redeem himself and grow up. A clean record and good evals following this plus a chit could be put in for reenlistment and if you were squared away you got a second chance.
There's a lot of persons era 1974-late 1977 walking around who did not finish their obligation and got discharged for going AWOL
But the Bush Administration and congress needs to start facing some realities. The eight year service obligation should be optional and for second enlistment and beyond. First enlistment should be limited to a total of six years obligation with active four years active except in cases of extended training such as the Navy Nuke School Program etc where extensive service time is spent in school. The service man after four years should be able to go off active duty and into inactive reserve for two more years meaning no reserve drills. The End Troop Strength Levels need to be raised to a realistic level so burn out and over deployment is brought under control.
World War II desertion rates peaked at 6.3 percent:
[In World War II, desertion rates reached 6.3 percent of the armed forces in 1944, and during the American reverses at the Battle of the Bulge, the army executed one American soldier, Private Ernie Slovik, for desertion in the face of the enemy as an example to other troops. Desertion rates dropped to 4.5 percent in 1945.]
http://www.answers.com/topic/desertion
What, statistically, do these figures REALLY represent??
One could say that TB has increased 50% in the U.S. in recent years, but since TB was practically non-existant here a few years ago, a percentage increase like that would be statistically meaningless.
Its interesting that desertions from the Marines are practically non-existant.
Yeah, these times are indeed more stressful for our soldiers, even with a Commander in Chief who supports them and believes in the ultimate good of their mission.
No thanks to our seditious majority in Congress.
That’s why I who am of the worthless Clintoons’ generation want one final chance to serve this great nation alongside my much younger comrades just so I can thank them in person in theater. Been deployed once, come on now.
Unlike during Vietnam, it looks like the Canadians finally get it. No cakewalk for deserters. Screw them.
Yeah it did!
GW was really set up for success when it came to defending the country from the Islamo-Nazi hordes.
Well, it seems that war makes people think twice, after they find out what its like to have lead passing close by. Yow! Lemme outa here?
And of course the MSM has nothing to do with this, they would not be claiming a success here of depopulariziing a war would they?
I think that we need to have a draft again, but only for reporters. They all should have to be embedded for at least a year in a two year stint. I wonder what their desertion rate would be? Probably a lot higher than 9 out of a thousand, more like 500 out of a thousand.
Love to see it.
You can thank both parties who have held majority status since 1989 and began tearing down the military Gipper built. Both of them helped Poppy, Willie, and Junior take our military to a low manpower and equipment level and it has not gotten better. Among them was John Warner. The GOP Houses actually presided over six of Slick Willies eight years as POTUS. Our current End Troop Strengths have pretty well remained the same +- maybe 10,000 or so since 1996 meaning numbers set actually in 1995. So what does that say about a former GOP majority who wasted a golden opportunity to rebuild our military as well? The DEMs we know will do it but the GOP has it's share of the blame also.
AWOL data needs to be broken down between National Guard, Reserves or Active forces. If most of the deserters are Guard and Reserves, I would not be surprise. But if most are active duty troops, that is a red flag that needs to be looked at.
I was thinking the same thing.
It is common knowledge that the Reserves and National Guard troops that were activated are being seriously harmed by the long deployments that most of them never contemplated when they volunteered.
These men and women may not see any other choice but to not report when called up. Many of these soldiers married and with financial commitments get home after a year in a war zone and begin to pick up the pieces only get another call to go back.
I don’t condone desertion but I can understand how some of them could succumb to despair trying to figure out how to support their families on straight military pay.
Many companies will hold a job for a Reserves soldier but not many will pay an employees salary while they are on deployment anymore.
Do you suppose that PMSNBC could be any more gleeful at the news?
Desertion Rates Actual numbers and % 1997-2004
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/desertionrates.htm
Desertion rates climbed in each of Clintoon’s second term. And that was a time of peace.
In 2000 the rate was almost the same as it is now.
Where’d you serve?
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