Posted on 11/16/2007 10:13:07 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
EVANSVILLE, Indiana (AP) — Federal agents raided the headquarters of a group that produces illegal currency and puts it in circulation, seizing gold, silver and two tons of copper coins featuring Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul.
Agents also took records, computers and froze the bank accounts at the "Liberty Dollar" headquarters during the Thursday raid, Bernard von NotHaus, founder of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act & Internal Revenue Code, said in a posting on the group's Web site.
The organization, which is critical of the Federal Reserve, has repeatedly clashed with the federal government, which contends that the gold, silver and copper coins it produces are illegal.
(Excerpt) Read more at politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com ...
You must not be familiar with the history of the Continental Dollar. There were colonial issuances of banknotes that were also highly inflationary and ultimately counterproductive.
The Constitution grants no authority to print money.
The ban on the issuance of federal paper money is another casualty of the Civil War. The constitutionality of Greenbacks was denied in Hepburn v. Griswold. There were two vacancies on the Supreme Court, which newly-elected President Grant filled with paper money proponents. Soon after their nominations were approved by the Senate, the Supreme Court reversed itself in Knox v. Lee.
None. See my post #261.
Essentially, the seignorage income is returned to the US Treasury.
Ostensibly redeemable, IIRC. Was your point that the Founders never would have believed that Americans would be so foolish as to permit an irredeemable legal tender be imposed on them by force?
Different case, but yes that does make a twisted sort of sense. Silver "coins" as a novelty / collector item are fine, but if people use them as "money" then it is a threat to the Treasury Dept.
It also explains the timing. The Fed had to move to stop the $1 copper coins from hitting the street. Norfed rounds aren't any better than the silver coins created by a dozen other companies, and those other companies would have followed suit over time. (Companies like to copy profitable business models.)
A $1 coin might have more takers than a $20 (silver) or $1000 (gold) coin.
It was almost the beginning of an underground economy (undeclared, untaxed). It's not about Ron Paul. Same thing could have happened with coins showing Hilary or Jesus,or whoever. Didn't even have to be coins, people could have paid for haircuts and car repairs using Beanie Babies or Pokemon cards. Anything other than FRNs being circulated as money is a problem.
That does basically say the Fed figures that barter is illegal.
Yes, that was the point that I wished to make — not that there had never been pieces of paper circulating called “dollars,” but that those “dollars” were understood to be a claim for something else — usually gold or silver.
Of course the development and uttering of the greenback took place in what was already a massive exercise of force by the national government.
I've had Freepers tell me that the income goes to the foreign owners of the Federal Reserve (and the Joooooos). Your explanation sounds more benign.
You missed it, apparently. That is a “proof” coin - you are paying a $15 insurance premium to assure proof against confiscation by the thugs in government, when they take the bullion gold, silver, etc. See?
boockoo = beaucoup (French)
Even the uncirculated coins have neumismatic value, are touted by the mint as bullion coins, are legal tender, and are a little cheaper than the proofs.
I guess there is a mint monopoly, but those sales are on record somewhere, too. (Registration predates confiscation, historically).
It was my understanding that even during the 'gold grab' of the '30s, collectors were allowed to keep their coins. If not, I know of one collector, now deceased, who was responsible for increasing my interest in coin collecting substantially by showing me gold coins in my youth (after having sworn me to secrecy--an oath I have yet to break) and gold certificates, which were retained despite the law.
I would have given my right arm for his collection, but was far away when he died and his widow sold the collection before I could return. (I hope she got a reasonable amount for it.)
Frankly, I think he started collecting to dodge confiscation and then got the 'bug'.
In recent decades people have put a seemingly inordinate amount of trust in the banking system, in the transfer of electrons and computer databases.
I do not share that trust.
The system is complicated, and is some ways fragile, and hard copy and hard coin will carry the day if it ever collapses.
That lack of trust is not new.
I had a friend who worked as security in a bingo hall, (pretty large jackpots) and he said there was one little old lady who used to come in on Saturdays with a few red seal silver certificates or United States Notes (rarely an early Federal Reserve Note) and spend them to play bingo. The one he showed me had the paper clip rust stain on it. (The crew promptly 'redeemed' them for an equal denomination in FRNs).
The note had probably been stuffed in a box or mattress, because they did not trust banks. That from the days when banks did collapse, and people lost their assets on deposit.
Unlike the paper money, if they had just tossed quarters in the box or half dollars, they would have had a hoard of silver coins in relatively good shape, one which could have been sold for multiples of its face value. The notes were not in great condition, appeared well circulated for the most part, and would likely not have commanded such a premium as the coins might have.
I think that it is vital that the American People take back their prerogative to coin money. If we are able to establish a sound money system in time to replace the collapsing FRNs, we the people may have a chance to deal with our other problems, and persist as a first world nation into the future. If we continue to tolerate the yoke of the thuggish, worthless, lying scum in DC, with their phony laws, phony money, phony patriotism, and phony lives, we will sink forever into the muck of bankrupt despotism.
As a collector, FDR excluded numismatics (also jewelry, service, cookware, fillings, & etc.) from his confiscation laws, giving the wealthy insiders their escape hatch. That is not to say that future “emergency” confiscations will provide the same exclusion. The thugs well armed agents could come home to home for anything of monetary value to sustain the overlords’ opulent lifestyle, all “for the children” of course.
I’m talking about debasement of gold and other commodity coins. for example, mixing in other metals in with the gold to make it cheaper. Not so easy to tell.
they fool people into thinking the dollar is as good as gold when this “golden” dollar is really made with a bunch of junk.
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