Posted on 11/15/2007 7:50:21 AM PST by Attention Surplus Disorder
Frontal Assault on Freedom: FBI Raids Liberty Dollar Posted by BJT on Nov 15, 2007 Read this email closely. I just got it this morning. Those of you who consider the gold standard a quaint anachronism, pay extra close attention. If Ron Paul supporters, gold standard advocates and the Liberty Dollar were nothing but harmless kooks, why would the FBI raid their offices when no crime was ever committed? This is a currency competing with the USD, yes, but they never, but never make the claim that it is legal tender or anything other than what it is: private currency. And private currencies are numerous in the USA.
No. This raid happened because the Liberty Dollar, the second most popular currency in the country, threatens to usurp the entrenched power of the Feds Almighty Dollar. People can see the buying power of the greenback eroding, and they will choose something else if it is available, and the Liberty Dollar is ready and waiting. And thats why the government must resort to force in order to protect its stranglehold on the economy.
From Liberty Dollar Headquarters: Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:
I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.
For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.
We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.
But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.
This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.
The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the peoples hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.
I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled if ever it now all depends on our actions.
Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please dont let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal to return America to a value based currency.
Please forward this important Alert so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.
Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!
If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php
Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.
Bernard von NotHaus
I'm a constitutionalist, not an anarchist, so yes I believe that it is sometimes good that the government exercises it's authority. Especially when exercising it against those who are overtly trying to undermine our currency and our military during a time of war.
If you haven't noticed, the Constitution expressly gives the federal government the authority "To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin".
Liberty Dollar isn't hiding the fact that they are trying to undermine the value of the dollar and the authority of the federal government.
This isn't some example of the government reaching beyond their Constitutional authority, and it's pretty obvious that Liberty Dollar violated the law as it is written.
So if there was a government power grab regarding this, it was back when the US Constitution was ratified.
You are welcome Libertard peacenik.
If only they would exercise its authority against the people who are really undermining our currency, the Federal Reserve Banks - did you see the photos of the immense pallets of $100 bills being shipped over to Iraq?
lol, goatse.
Please: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts.
Telling people they cant trade in gold or press coins goes *way* beyond what the founders imagined.
Especially when exercising it against those who are overtly trying to undermine our currency and our military during a time of war.
If you want to go after folks undermining our currecny how about starting at walmart
OMG, Look what “Ron Paul Dollars” are going for on ebay!!
$55—$60.....!!
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=ron+paul+dollar&category0=
True lunacy.
While ANYone claiming to have a hard money backed currency deserves to be carefully monitored, I have a United States Silver Certificate I cannot redeem for silver (yep, U.S. Treasury).
If these people backed their paper with the metal and exchanged or redeemed it as such, no foul.
(The "freemen" in Montana got nailed in a deal where someone tried to redeem one of their 'gold certificates' by presenting it for payment and they did not redeem it. At that point it was fraud.)
Certificates redeemable in goods, services, or money have been used for a long time, and not just by governments.
Otherwise, transit tokens and gift certificates, not to mention fundraising scrip and "Hometown Dollar" scrip would all be illegal. Not sure about MPCs.
However, the easy way to cause such an operation to default on their transactions is to sieze their assets and records.
The only other problem I can see, is that there was a "Peace Dollar" issued by the US Mint from 1921 to 1935, a legal tender silver dollar, which while it bears little resemblance to the coin pictured, the name could be the source of the problem.
Mint designs have not been copywrited in the past, which is how people who reproduce 1933 St Gaudens $20.00 gold pieces and "layer them" in gold can advertise them on TV.
Maybe you do not remember, but it used to say on Federal Reserve Notes: "This note legal tender for all debts, public and private, and redeemable in lawful money at the U.S. Treasury or any Federal Reserve Bank."
There is a reason that was there.
The Federal Reserve is not a Government agency, but a private bank. It kept them out of hot water over the part of the Constitution which says only Congress has the power to coin money.
Otherwise, they would have been issuing something other than what it is: a promissory note.
While it used to promise redemption in gold or silver coin (lawful money), what it promises any more, I just do not know.
This the dollar you're talking about:
It’s possible, I don’t know. I’m having trouble believing that they no longer have ANY records at all. Not even backup copies, either on digital media or paper? No reports? Sticky pads? Backs of napkins?
Maybe the FBI really did clean them out, but the wording of the email strikes me as a bit odd, or at least melodramatic.
Actually, if you throw aside the currency issues, I think the marketing of a simple Ron Paul commemorative coin is an interesting idea. I know we’ve slammed heads on Paul threads in the past, and I don’t agree with the guy on his foreign policy, but I will freely admit that what his support may lack in breadth, it certainly seems to make up in depth, and that includes people who would spend $20 on a basically-worthless coin. It makes me wonder what the FEC rules are on a campaign doing something like selling collectible kitsch to raise money.
}:-)4
All the bullion coins marketed by the United States Mint have a face value and are legal tender. (But who would want to spend an ounce of gold for $50.00 or an ounce of Platinum for $100.00 when their bullion value is multiples of that?)
It's all just funny money... At least, to some folks it apparently is...
“Gold and silver has practical purposes, but their main value comes from them being pretty. The materials historically have value, and maintain their value primarily because people believe them to have value. They really don’t have as much “intrinsic” value as you credit them with”
OK, lets shift the argument a bit. I have a few double eagles from the US Mint that have a ‘value’ of $50 on the coin. The 1 OZ gold vale, the real value, is almost $800. Is not the government selling me a coin with a government value value 1/16 of its actual value and is that not fraud?
By government value, I mean, the amount of goods I can legally ourchase across the counter with my $50 gold piece even though the coins is worth 16 times more than that on the commodities market.
What did you pay per coin for possession?
Probably time for the Admin Mod to wade through this thread and nuke the personal attacks no matter who they came from.
Yes they exist, and the federal government has the authority to regulate them. One of the articles even mentioned that the local government got explicit permission from the federal government before creating their own local currency.
Those local governments aren't trying to undermine that value of the dollar, and they even exchange their currency back for dollars. What they are really doing is creating a program where you get a discount, but only if you use "money" that is only good for local purchases, and their local money is actually worth less than a dollar.
However, since the government has the authority to regulate currency, they could tell those local governments to stop using their local currencies if they thought it had an adverse effect.
The idea is to keep value circulating in the community, instead of being hoovered up into international banks and stripped out of the community.
Exactly, and they reward people for doing so by giving them a discount because the local currency is worth a little less than a dollar.
If the feds are taking the position that it's illegal to barter if shiny bits of gold or silver are involved, then they've bitten off quite a chunk for themselves.
You can barter all you want. However, if you take those shiny bits of gold and silver and mint them into coins with values relative to each other, and try and get everyone else to use them you aren't simply bartering anymore. You've created a currency.
Recently they tried to prosecute someone for tax evasion for paying their employees in the uncirculated coinage based on the government-approved face value. They can't seem to make up their minds, though I guess it's understandable because it's the government.
LOL! Some people just can resist the urge to try and stir up trouble.
That's a pretty novel idea on the part of the employer. He may be following the letter of the law, but it isn't exactly what I would consider honest. I hadn't thought about using such coins as a way to under report the value of a transaction for tax purposes.
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