Posted on 11/07/2007 7:54:06 AM PST by BGHater
I'm sure you're right.
Unless they are steel core, they aren't different. NATO specs do include a steel core round which can't be sold to US consumers, but other than that the ammo isn't different.
Other than making steel core bullets themselves, the equipment is the same for manufacturing even the steel core ammo.
...we should be able under any situation to handle our own production of ammunition.
How would you suggest going about doing that? Are you planning on having ammo factories built and maintained, just waiting to produce whatever ammo we might need for "any situation"?
I suppose we should have the capacity to build, bombs, tanks, planes, guns, ships, and everything else we might possibly need for "any situation"?
We would need to not only build, but maintain those factories. We would also need to train workers and keep have them ready and able to step up and manufacture such products to meet our needs for "any situation".
So who is going to pay for all of this? Who is going to run all of it? Talk about growing the government bureaucracy.
We need to maintain reasonable stockpiles of ammo both in the US and staged in areas where we might need it.
There are ways to encourage manufactures to maintain a higher capacity.
What we need to do is encourage the civilian use of military rounds so that the manufacturers have reason to maintain the ability to produce more ammunition.
Basically we need to do the exact opposite of what the gun grabbing liberals are trying to do. We need to encourage civilian use of guns that fire the same cartridges as are commonly used by our military.
We need to reduce the tax and bureaucracy that ammo manufactures face so they can sell ammo at a competitive price and therefore keep quantities up. The exact opposite of what liberals are trying to do.
However, what we should not do is have the government create factories that sit idle, just in case we might need them.
Its not enough that I already reload? This forum is getting to Grizzly Adams. :)
And I already stated I was answering a simplified question. In general my statement is correct. Why are you looking to pick an argument?
1. Federal Cartridge Co actually runs the Lake City MO Army Ammunition Plant (the only one we have), which produces most small arms ammo for the US military. Several other companies (winchester etc) bid on additional contract quantities to be produced in-house, to Mil-spec standards.
2. M855 5.56 NATO projectiles are full metal (copper alloy) jacketed tangent ogive boat-tails with a forward sub-core of hardened steel, followed with a slug of lead in the rear. They do not penetrate engine block, single building etc very well; nor do they do too badly on soft targets, but a 22 is a 22....
3. Many countries (US Included) use/have used mild steel as jacket material as well, especially during WW2 when copper was in short supply. Most all M1 30/06 ammo is steel jackets with a copper plating, and does not wear rifle barrels out any faster than copper or brass jackets.
4. The Geneva & Hague Conventions do not specify exactly how a small arm projectile must be made, only that ammunition designed to create excessive wounding/suffering is prohibited. The US SPEC-OPS community and snipers use OPE (open point-expanding) AKA boat-tail hollow point projectiles in both 5.56 and 7.62 NATO ammo and use it without violating either the letter or principles of the laws of land warfare. In fact, any weapon provided by our government may be used against individual enemy personnel, regardless of its caliber. Ideally, we use only enough weapon to eliminate the threat, but a 2000 lb laser guided bomb or 120mm tank cannon round may be used to take out a single individual, only it is not very cost effective to do so....
5.Concerning the cost of 556 762 ammo, etc, tell your representative or congressman to fund the military production programs to insure we do not have to buy rifle bullets from Taiwan, pistol ammo from Israel and explosives from Sweden.... We do need to be self-sufficient in these critical resources, thank your greenies for restricting these activities and creating conditions where DOD finds it easier to buy from neighbors, rather than fight the enviro-terrorists at home.
6. Pray for a Warrior in harms way today.
7. Have you done your part or do you just trust that someone else will join up?
>>Why are you looking to pick an argument?
I think that question is more appropriately asked of you. I asked a simple question. You brought it further, not me.
Hey, do you want total self-sufficiency? Buy a flintlock. Cast your own bullets, chip your own flints, and make your own powder. If you *really* want to impress your friends at the gun range, extract your own potassium nitrate from guano. ;-)
It’s a sad day when our domestic military contractors cannot manufacture enough ammo for our own use.
After getting into reloading about a year ago, this is my next step. Casting wouldn't, however, be of much use when it comes to homerolling .223 / 5.56.
OTOH. Corbin sells a neat little swaging setup that'll convert used .22lr brass and lead wire into nice hp bullets. The initial setup is a bit pricey and the process a little labor intensive, but if you can't buy finished bullets...
Pardon me while I excuse myself to scrounge wheel weights and mine the berm at the range. 8^)
True, but I prefer much larger calibers for both rifle and pistol.
“We don’t know if these are hollowed, lead or jacketed.”
Hollow points are against the Geneva Convention. The military can’t use hollow points or “dum dums”. Military and most civilian ammo are copper jacketed with a lead insert and in the case of military ammo has a small steel penetrator. They are copper jacketed to prevent lead fouling in modern firearms. I think Armor Piercing ammo is against the law for civilians now due to the “cop-killer-bullet” propaganda, although there are some old rounds out there.
If I got anything wrong one of you guys correct me.
Thanks.
"HAY! LOOK WHUT THUH BOOLLITS R DOIN! THEY'RE ALL OVER THE PLACE! THESE BULLETS ARE DEFECTIVE!"
(Result of shooting M855-spec in a 1x12" bbl, or 55gr XM193 in a 1x7" bbl.)
“The rumor is that lead and brass are being bought up by China.”
I know they need the lead to paint the toys they send us, I guess they need the brass for bullet casings when they are ready to start shooting at us.
I shoot muzzle-loaders - cast all my own bullets.
I hadn't realized that the BATF has specifically exempted that round from the AP ammo ban. Thanks for the correction.
.30 '06 AP can be bought, because it's not considered a "pistol" round.
7.62x39 is considered a "pistol" round, and is not exempted. Back in the early '90s, you could buy ChiCom 7.62x39 that was steel core. Crap, but cheap. Then somebody made a 7.62x39 "pistol" and BATF cut off imports of the stuff. Then X42 cut off imports of anything firearms related from the ChiComs.
At least, that's how I remember it.
And for civilians, it is prudent to maintain stocks of ammo, both for the case where the military exhausts domestic supply, and for the possibility that politicians may do things to your ability to buy more.
Ammo lasts a long time. I would think it prudent to keep a few years supply on hand
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