Yeah, he's just what we need.
Posted on 11/03/2007 5:12:27 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Most Republican presidential candidates can brag about attracting followers with their valiant stances on important issues.
Rudy Giuliani's followers support him because they think he can beat Hillary Clinton.
In and by itself, the reasoning of Giuliani's supporters is not illogical. Many people do take into account electability when voting for a primary candidate (although most will not sacrifice their basic principles in the name of an election victory).
The problem is, this perceived electability is the only thing going for Giuliani.
But here is the real kicker: Giuliani is not electable.
In fact, he is far less electable than the only other Republican frontrunners understood to be capable of beating Hillary, namely Fred Thompson and John McCain.
To this, Giuliani's people inevitably shout the following talking points: First, Giuliani's moderate standpoint will attract unaffiliated voters, and can help Republicans make up for the unpopularity they have inherited from the George W. Bush years. Second, Giuliani has a lot of conservative accomplishments going for him – just look at how he handled 9/11, reduced crime in New York City, and how he reduced crime in New York City while handling 9/11!
They fail on both points.
First, Giuliani is a liberal. He supports abortion, and welcomes illegal immigrants to sanctuary cities. He opposes gun rights. He supported a Democratic candidate for governor in New York, and among his 75 judicial appointments, Democrats outnumbered Republicans by more than eight to one.
Though he attempted to knock Thompson on tort reform in the last presidential debate, he failed to mention his own poor record on the matter. Only a few years ago he sued two dozen gun manufacturers and distributors for essentially being functioning gun manufacturers and distributors, calling them "an industry which profits from the suffering of innocent people."
Giuliani's supporters will concede that he is not that conservative on social issues, but that really it is a good thing because we don't want extremist evangelical Christians taking over the GOP. But opposing abortion, illegal immigration, gun control and liberal judges does not make you an extremist. It merely makes you conservative.
Knowing they lose on the social issues, the Giuliani team holds on tight to fiscal matters allegedly showing that the man is really conservative. Since economic questions are often not as black and white as social topics, the Giuliani team knows that critics will have a harder time debunking the myth of Giuliani's economic conservatism.
But it can be done, and briefly so.
Giuliani tenaciously battled the line-item veto, which allows the executive to cut waste from legislative bills, taking the fight as far as he could in the courts. Giuliani also defied the promise of free trade – perhaps the only concept economists virtually unanimously support – through his ardent opposition to NAFTA.
These facts might explain why Giuliani indiscriminately answers "crime" and "George Will said I'm conservative" during the presidential debates as many times as Ron Paul brings up "foreign policy" in response to completely unrelated questions. Giuliani has nothing else to run on in order to win over conservatives. Unlike the other candidates, he cannot brag about his primary strength – the perception that he is electable.
But the fact is, the general election will be no head-to-head match up if Giuliani is the Republican nominee. In 2004, the Constitution Party ran Michael Peroutka against President Bush, now widely considered to have pandered to social conservatives in extreme fashion. You bet these social conservatives would run a candidate against nominee Giuliani. You bet the Libertarian Party would eat away more Republican votes. And you bet Clinton would win.
Giuliani is a liberal. And if nominated by the GOP, he would be a liberal running against someone who is better at being liberal. He would have to compete just as hard for conservative votes as for liberal and moderate votes, and he will lose.
Giuliani is not conservative. Giuliani is not electable. A thorough look at his record, the polls and the political reality cannot lead to any other conclusion. He's got the worst of both worlds.
Balony!!!!!!!!!!
Giuliani is a cross-dressing liberal running as a conservative. He masks his abortion, gay and RINO agenda using fear as boob bait for the bubbas. “Only I can protect you”.
When he had his chance on the 9/11 Commission, he cut and ran. When he had a chance to nominate a Homeland Protector, he chose his business partner, Kerik, now facing criminal charges.
“Giuliani is a liberal.”
This is true and we all know it. And that is WHY he CAN beat Hillary.
Like it not, there are a LOT of Republicans that are not as conservative as a lot of people around here think that they should be. Many of them are pro-choice and (gasp!) even gay.
I like Fred and will vote for him. But I think that Rudy will get more votes because a lot of pro-choice voters will prefer him to Hillary. They won’t vote at all for Fred.
I've heard this argument time and time again. WRONG! 1. We are in much more danger of a leftist/socialist (Rudy/Mitt or the Dems) takeover than we are of an Islamic takeover. 2. How does being the victim of the worst terror attack in U.S. history make you a terror warrior? 3. If we abort our own citizens, what need have we of jihadists to kill them with car bombs or beheadings? 4. He may be your mayor, but he's not mine! 5. Without our guns, how will we defend ourselves from Islamic terrorists OR statist tyrants? 6. Do you think jihadists will fear a man in women's clothing?
I keep asking the 20%ers (aka the Rudy apologists) exactly what Guiliani would do different than President Bush in the WOT?
Push for more gun control?
Sue gun manufacturers?
Expand sanctuary cities?
Encourage more illegal aliens by telling them that they are NOT really illegal?
Allow gays to openly serve in the military?
Locate emergency command centers to the most likely target (like he did in NY)?
Make quality appointments to important positions like his recommendation to President Bush of Bernie Kerik to head Homeland Security?
It's outrageous to think that we need a LIBERAL to successfully fight the WOT.
Don't worry. Take your meds. You will be protected.
No, his campaign is attracting conspiracy nuts who yell and scream about the Constitution, but couldn’t tell you a thing about whats in it. And those are his better followers. Don’t get me started on the Stormfront bigots.
LOL! He is going to fight terror via sanctuary cities and open borders..?
You Rudyphiles just don't get it. Rudy is a horrible candidate in every way a candidate can be horrible.
Do you folks agree that the defeat of Radical Islam is the top issue facing America?
His marginal tax cuts were swallowed up by more city spending
tough on crime liberal.
America isn't NYC and we don't want Rudy's authoritarian, police state tactics everywhere else.
Rudy's nominated = 3rd party
Do you realize that all of the other GOP candidates, including Ron Paul, are better than Rudy at fighting the WOT?
Rudy's nominated = 3rd party
However, I do not think that Giuliani is electable. He will split the party. Conservatives are not going to provide strong support for him. If conservatives support the nominee, he has a good chance in the general election.
FDT is the only candidate who can unite the party and win in November. Giuliani will split the party. Romney is not electable in November. The other candidates do not have a chance in November so they should drop out now. If anyone but FDT wins the nomination, we will be dealing with a committed Marxist and criminal for 8 years.
We're right at home here, no need for flames. I disagree with the poster's 2nd part of his post too.
A lot of Paul supporters disagree with Paul on foreign policy, but you can't refute what FReeper mvpel said at the beginning. Like it or not, lots of independents and frustrated conservatives are gravitating to the Paul campaign. Go ahead and say they're Truthers, anti-war kooks, or White Supremacists, but those are facts.
Of course, but that issue intertwines with the issue of open borders, something Bush has never owned up to and neither will Rudy. Rudy won't be any worse than Bush on the issue, but he will be no better. Fred will be better on the WOT, and virtually every other conservative issue.
Rudy needs to tune in, turn on, and DROP OUT of the race, and throw his support to Fred.
Not appreciably if you are conservative. At least not enough to bother to vote for one or the other if the non-choice is Rudy v. Hillary.
Yeah, he's just what we need.
Some of them may be flakking for Rudy for that reason; most are simply looking ahead to the disappearance of their livelihood if Hillary is elected, and buying into the MSM siren call that "Rudy is electable" and for that reason they will beat the drums and hammer their listeners to vote for anyone or anything as long as it has an "R" following its name. They are willing to turn themselves into huge hypocrites to do whatever it takes to keep their employment, not realizing that many of their listeners will be tuning them out long before the election.
Giuliani’s supporters will concede that he is not that conservative on social issues, but that really it is a good thing because we don’t want extremist evangelical Christians taking over the GOP. But opposing liberal judges does not make you an extremist. It merely makes you conservative.
There are no extremist evangelical Christians taking over the GOP, there are social conservatives who are active in the party.
And Rudy opposes liberal judges just like they do, which is why Rudy is so electable against Hillary, who will support the complete opposite.
And social conservatives understand this above all else.
Nonsense. Our biggest future challenge is from China both in economic and military terms. A 3rd world group of people without a world class military anything blowing up cars, improvising devices and stealing planes is hardly the top threat. If Washington thought this was our biggest problem, they would mobilize the nation, start the draft, ration oil, and put Rosie the Riveter back backing the weapons. If they ever bombed us, we would obliterate them. We got the greatest military. This issue is really over hyped as a threat to us.
“There is just one single issue that matters before all others, Utter Unequivocal Defeat of Radical, Militant, Terrorist Islam. Liberal-Conservative policy discussions and disputes will not matter in an American governed by medieval sharia law. America’s Mayor Rudy Giuliani understands the Radical Islam war like no other presidential candidate .”
Sieg Heil!!!!!
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