Posted on 10/26/2007 5:10:37 PM PDT by WFTR
***The results of this poll suggest that there might be a gray area that could work, and I’m going to continue advocating for that gray area to the exclusion of the ugliness on each extreme.***
If the laws reflected your proposals, over 85% of abortions performed would be illegal.
I don't buy that syllogism at all. That conclusion does not necessarily support the premise. You call for a hyper-enforcement application of the law based on a distorted concept of what constitutes equal justice. I'm no legal expert, but we obviously make just distinctions between arguably similar crimes in the law all the time. Relative motives, intent, state of mind, harm to the community, all apply to just distinctions in how the law is applied. (The greater punishment is generally reserved for the doctor who illegally prescribes medicine than for the patient who consumes, for example; the drug dealer more than the user, etc.)
I have a hard time believing that you genuinely can't see how a just distinction in culpability can be drawn both legally and morally between an abortionist and an abortive mother.
But let's move beyond your theory of what constitutes equal application of the law to the realm of historical fact: Until Roe v. Wade in 1973 it was abortionists and abortion providers who were prosecuted and imprisoned, not abortive mothers. Now you may believe that was unequal and unjust, but the U.S. judicial system at state, local and federal levels clearly supported the constitutionality of those laws for many generations. Contrary to your thesis, it seems we could return to a time when abortion was illegal without having to enforce manifestly silly and unjust draconian laws which would force the imprisonment of rape-victim abortive mothers.
It is impolite to not share other’s views? Really!
I am under the impression this is a conservative website. And was unaware that if Jim frowned the world rocked.
I am pushing no candidate myself. To agree or disagree with a candidate if far from pushing them.
I don’t care if the baby feels pain (early or not): he or she is still a living HUMAN BEING, and should not be MURDERED,
I won’t send the women to jail whom had it, but the abortion doctors whom committed the murder.
In the case you sited: sure, but in that case one was going to die (the mother), and it couldn’t be helped; also those are very rare cases.
In all others it is selfishness, an inconvenience of a life!
Your argument that you would not send the unwilling mother to jail but the abortion doc only does not hold water.
If a woman consents to abortion she is a party to the act committed by the doctor. And as such bears the responsibility.
I think the reason many take this natural conclusion of criminalizing abortion is that they know deep down that people would reject their whole argument about criminalising abortion if they understood that the women having them would be criminalised.
If you truly think abortion is murder, the mother to be who consents to an abortion is a murderess.
Can you go that far?
Your debating style is to exaggerate what someone else says, then argue against that exaggerated position. It’s just straw argumentation.
I hope you found some sort of enjoyment wasting your own time as well as everyone else’s.
I can go as far as to prosocute the ACTUAL actor (person) that kills the baby!
unless the woman preforms a SELF ABORTION, I very much know my argument HOLDS H2O!
Your opinion is irrelevant. This is a pro-life website. We don't support candidates or posters who support abortion or pretend it's not a big deal.
Is this a prolife website? I was not under that impression. I thought it was a conservative website. And from the discussion it seems that there are more shades of gray than you wish to acknowledge.
“and some other interesting points are that the Republican party is not overwhelmingly pro-life as many would claim.”
You can tell that just by reading this forum. There are several Rudy supporters here.
A person who gives consent for an abortion and cooperates for it is as much responsible as the person who performs it.
The closest comparison is hiring a hit man. The person who hires gets the same penalty.
If you would make an abortionist guilty of a crime, you make a woman guilty too.
Can’t get around it.
A human conceived by rape or incest is what, less human?
One intrinsically evil act cannot justify another intrinsically evil act
So you would further victimize that rape victim by using the force of law to force her to carry her rapists child to term.
Interesting people around here.
Yes, you can. And, in fact, we did. During all those years in which abortion was illegal, it was the abortionist, not the woman, who was prosecuted.
Exactly. There is a continuum along what you call the prolife position. Starting with health of the mother, to rape and incest and so on.
yep, the women just died.
But if you truly believe abortion is murder, if you hold the position that it is never acceptable then the woman who has one with consent is no different from the person who performs it.
It was a custom not to charge the mothers,,the law knew there would be uproar if they did. Even the most prolife people don’t suggest criminalising the woman’s actions,,for now at least.
Well, I would say life, not health of the mother, but otherwise you are correct.
You’ve been reading too much NARAL propaganda. These alleged massive numbers of women who died before legalization were casually made up during a meeting in the 1960s.
You have a funny way of rationalizing things. There would be an uproar if women were prosecuted, but there was no uproar when women died (which you claim happened).
You’re listening to the media too much and not thinking this through.
Yes, the “health” loophole is big enough to drive a tank through.
The real reason abortion was legalized throughout much of the Western world in the sixties & seventies was because of the sexual revolution. That event freed men up from their responsibilities to women, and created a degraded culture where women increasingly became sex objects. With increased promiscuity, men came to expect women to “put out”, and they increasingly felt no responsibility if they got a female pregnant. The attitude became, “Go get an abortion, b***h, it ain’t my problem”.
It’s been erased from history, but the Playboy Foundation heavily financed the campaign to legalize abortion.
That's what most of us are hoping will happen.
I'm sorry that you can't accept that I see the woman seeking the abortion as being just as guilty as the doctor who performs the abortion. If the criminal justice system proves that illegal abortions are occurring, then the women seeking those abortions will each have fewer total counts of the crime against them than the doctors who have provided multiple abortions. However, the notion that they should go free after contracting with someone to kill their unborn children is wrong.
Bill
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