Posted on 10/25/2007 12:14:34 AM PDT by Wiz
DERISHKIT, Iraq - Two Turkish jet fighters streaked across the mountain peaks near this border village Wednesday as part of an expanding military force gathered to pressure Kurdish rebels to abandon their hideouts in northern Iraq.
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Residents claimed the planes were on a bombing run to hit a site about four miles inside Iraq, but could offer no details to back up their assertion. If true, however, the airstrike would mark a notable escalation of Turkish tactics against the Kurdish rebels.
The overflight came after three days of artillery shelling from inside Turkey at this area along the Zey-Gowra River, said Jalal Salman, the 45-year-old principal of the local school, and five other villagers.
Turkey's government has warned it will launch an offensive into northern Iraq if Iraqi authorities don't move against bases used by the Kurdish Workers' Party, or PKK, which has waged a more than two-decade fight for autonomy in predominantly Kurdish southeastern Turkey.
Officials in Iraq's Kurdish region say there are no PKK bases, at least in populated areas under government control.
Local officials said the Turkish artillery fire had mostly hit orchards, roads, mountainsides and, in one case, a tourist restaurant in a cave. So far there were no casualties in this area, they said.
Five other Derishkit residents joined Salman and gestured toward a Turkish military post on a hilltop in the neighboring town of Khani-Mase. An armored vehicle stood on the heights, its gun pointing down the slope. The post is one of five bases established inside this part of Iraq in the mid-1990s with Iraqi Kurd agreement as part of Turkey's war against PKK separatists.
Salman said villagers were not intimidated by the base's soldiers, who they said sometimes fired machine guns at people gathering firewood on the slopes below.
They also said they won't hesitate to wage war on Turkish troops if an invasion comes.
"There will be a guerrilla war, and we will take up arms," Salman said as the other men nodded in agreement. "What else can we do? They are bombing us. They are committing aggression."
Popular anger at Turkey seems to be growing in northern Iraq, along with quiet preparations for conflict. There have been large demonstrations in the region's major cities, and television reports on a Kurdish protest in Turkey's capital riveted viewers here.
According to a report in one Kurdish newspaper, people living near one of the largest Turkish bases in northern Iraq threatened to attack the post if the Turkish army continued to fire artillery at the area.
Meanwhile, the Kurdish regional government has moved in units of its Peshmerga Defense Forces from the region's south. More than 100 of the fighters arrived aboard white buses Tuesday morning in Dohuk, capital of the region.
Smaller units of Peshmerga mustered in mosques and schools near the border, which they usually avoid because of the risk of clashes with Turkish troops. Several convoys of white SUVs, evidently carrying high-ranking Peshmerga commanders, were seen traveling in the area.
Muhammed Mohsin, an official with northern Iraq's dominant Kurdish Democratic Party in the Amadiya border area, said more than 50 villages in his area had been bombarded by Turkish artillery in recent days but no casualties had been reported.
Mohsin, one of the most influential political figures in Amadiya, said residents and the Peshmerga have laid plans for fighting any Turkish incursion.
"Our tactic is partisan fighting, a partisan conflict," he said. "If they attack, we are going to launch a partisan war against them."
Mohsin insisted there are no PKK camps in the Amadiya area.
But he also said dozens or hundreds of villages near the border had been evacuated and burned during Saddam Hussein campaign against Kurds and most remained empty. The Kurdish regional government has no control over this "no man's land," he said.
The area consists of range after range of arid mountains topped by sawtooth rocks, towering over narrow, twisting river valleys. "A million men could hide in those mountains," Mohsin said.
Many Iraqi Kurd officials suspect Turkey's real aim is to try to destabilize northern Iraq, the most peaceful part of the country, to discourage separatist sentiment among the millions of Kurds living in southeastern Turkey.
The PKK has been fighting against the Turkish government since 1984 in a war that has caused 30,000 deaths. While it previously demanded a separate Kurdish state in Turkey's southeast, it more recently has called for an autonomous region — similar to the region that the Kurds have in northern Iraq.
While the United States and Iraq's central government in Baghdad have labeled the PKK a terrorist organization, most Iraqi Kurds appear to regard its guerrillas as freedom fighters. They accuse the Turkish government of a long history of suppressing the Kurdish language and culture.
Many people here look to the United States to prevent Turkey from launching a major offensive into Iraq, some suggesting that Washington should respond with military force to any incursion.
"The U.S. is an occupying power," said Fahmi Salman, another regional Kurdistan Democratic Party official in Adamiya. "It is the duty of the United States to defend Kurdistan."
Salman said that even if the Americans don't help, the Kurds are prepared to defend their homes.
"The Kurds don't like war fighting," he said. "But if this happens, it will be a popular war. It will be against the people, and the people will fight."
We are also obligated to try to prevent Iraqi terrorist from attacking Turks in Turkey.
Just perhaps if the Turks had joined us early on instead interfering at every opportunity we’d both be in a better position to deal with the PKK now.
All this claptrap that this is all due to the Iraq war is BS. The PKK/Turkey thing has been going on for at least 20 years. Long before we got involved with Iraq.
The Kurds are behaving like fools. They should be working with the Turks to wipe out this PKK filth that is giving all Kurds a bad name.
Not all Iraqi territory along the border is "under government control." To wit,
From a recent Telegraph article. The Telegraph employee reports as he nears the border:
"While Kashan residents denied that there was a PKK presence in the area, as Turkey alleges, there were no men of working age to be seen during The Daily Telegraph's visit. At the last Kurdish army checkpoint several miles south, the commander gave us an explicit warning that we travelled on at our own risk. 'From here on is PKK territory,' he said. 'We don't go in there much, so I can't guarantee your safety.'. . .Turkey has steadily increased pressure on Washington for American troop action against the group. But the US forces in Iraq claim their hands are tied, having passed responsibility for security in the Kurdish region to local commanders."
It's still Iraqi territory and if they ain't going to handle it I guess Turkey will have to do it. It won't be the first time.
The posted article confirms the "no man's" land:
The Kurdistan government has no control over this "no man's land," he said, which consists of range after range of arid mountains topped by sawtooth rocks, towering over narrow, twisting river valleys. "A million men could hide in those mountains," he said.
RE: "Turkey striked a village recently with motar rounds? Is that a war against terrorism, indiscriminately attacking a village with a lot of civilians at risk? Even our troops are aware and do the best to avoid civilian deaths."
The facts appear to be in dispute. BTW, Turkey has done this several times in the past with the full knowledge of the Kurds.
Yes, Turkey is very concerned about the eventual independence of the Kurds and the possibility that the Kurds will stir up trouble in Turkey. But that is a separate issue. The issue now is the Marxist PKK terrorists!
By the behavior of the Turks in this, I'd say the Kurds have no monoply on foolishness.
The Kurds are behaving like fools. They should be working with the Turks to wipe out this PKK filth that is giving all Kurds a bad name.Do you know *why* the Kurds are revolting against the Turks?
The headline was, KURDS DISGUST THE TURKS
Now you gotta know that that means some really heavy-duty atrocities!
The only point is, the Kurds are not angels and at the time of the Armenian genocide they did a hell of lot of the atrocities. Why isn't Armenia including the Kurds in their demands?
Imagine the Mexicans in the US southwest, working together with Mexicans in Mexico, started a terror campaign against the US. How different would our response be from the way the Turks are responding?
Yes, the Kurds essentially think a huge swath of the middle east is "Kurdistan". I think most people would agree that an ethnic group this large should have a "homeland". That is why their defense of the PKK by the larger Kurdish community is so maddening. They are about to blow their best chance in several hundred years of establishing a Kurdish homeland.
Look, I have no argument with the need for action by Turkey, and/or equally by the Kurdish authorities in Iraq.
Your analogy is very apt. We would need to take action against the miscreants on our territory, first and foremost, but we would need to move against those in Mexico proper as well.
But, in the process, we ought not shell Tijuana or Nogales.
We would need to work with Mexican authorities to identify and root out the miscreants on their side of the border. And, I am sure that we could ensure their cooperation.
I am equally sure that Kurdish authorities in Iraq do NOT want to see all their gains put to maximum risk by a few die-hard marxists. Working together, the Kurds, the Turks and the United States can put an end to the actions of these few factionalists. And this should be done without the need for the Turks to shell Iraqi Kurd villages.
We’ll stay true to form....and sell out the Kurds just to stay on Turkey’s good side. US companies have too much invested in Turkey, and Bush needs the supply corridor to keep up the nation-building program in Iraq.
Remember the Hmong, the Bautisita-Cubans, and the conservative base of the GOP....
Agreed
Yes, the Kurds essentially think a huge swath of the middle east is "Kurdistan". I think most people would agree that an ethnic group this large should have a "homeland". That is why their defense of the PKK by the larger Kurdish community is so maddening. They are about to blow their best chance in several hundred years of establishing a Kurdish homeland.They don't "think" so. It *is*. The Turkish government, being the friendly folks that they are have been trying to stomp out Kurdish culture for ages. If you live in the Turkish occupied area of Kurdistan even *speaking* Kurdish is illegal. It's the same BS that China is pulling in Tibet but worse.
No, it's definitely not illegal. A large majority of the rules restricting the Kurdish language/culture were dumped several years ago when Turkey started talks to enter the EU. Now, the official language of Turkey is Turkish (similar to how the official language of the U.S. should be English IMO), but Kurds are free to speak their language, and they do.
And if you feel Turkey is getting a "free pass" because they're allies, then should Kurdish terrorists get a free pass because Kurds are an ally?
RE: "But, in the process, we ought not shell Tijuana or Nogales."
If you take a look at reply #5 you will see that there seems to be a dispute concerning what is being shelled. There is a link to an expanded version of the posted AP article. There are many other sources, of course.
RE: "Working together, the Kurds, the Turks and the United States can put an end to the actions of these few factionalists. And this should be done without the need for the Turks to shell Iraqi Kurd villages."
If you follow the news items about General Joseph Ralston (retired) and his tasks to coordinate U.S. engagement with Turkey and Iraq against the PKK threat I think you'll discover that Ankara is very much in touch with Baghdad.
In fact, "Turkey and Iraq signed a joint agreement of cooperation in squeezing the PKK’s funding and supply structures, while explicitly ruling out Turkish military action inside Iraq's borders."
Turkish military action inside Iraq's borders is something that Ankara has done numerous times since the PKK began "identifying Turkish 'collaborators' and either ostracizing or killing them."
IMO, if it were us going after Mexican smugglers we should interpret the agreement to mean no military action in Mexico City-controlled territory inside Mexico's borders. Neither Iraq nor the KRG controls the area that Turkey is after to get to the PKK.
The linked article is disturbing however in that there are accusations against Gen. Ralston suggesting that he somehow benefited from the F-16 deal with Turkey. Hell, what's so surprising that Turkey buys American? Go figure.
"Until 1991, Turkish Kurds were not allowed their own language, clothes, music or newspapers."
I have no reason to doubt this 1991 reference which is part of the article linked by my last post, immediately above.
If you say that it is a lie or is somehow misleading do you have sources?
And if you feel Turkey is getting a "free pass" because they're allies, then should Kurdish terrorists get a free pass because Kurds are an ally?Certainly, for the same reasons that people forgave Mandela and the ANC for using terrorism in South Africa. Using terrorism when you're under occupation and oppression is inherently more legitimate than when you're the occupying power. That's why terrorism against the Russians in Afghanistan is forgiven and terrorism by Saddam against the Shi'ites and Kurds isn't.
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