Posted on 10/23/2007 5:44:28 AM PDT by shrinkermd
When a high school friend told me several years ago that he and his wife were leaving Washington's Mount Pleasant neighborhood for Montgomery County, I snickered and murmured something about white flight. Progressives who traveled regularly to Cuba and Brazil, they wanted better schools for their children. I saw their decision as one more example of liberal hypocrisy.
I was childless then, but I have a 6-year-old now. And I know better. So to all the friends -- most but not all of them white -- whom I've chastised over the years for abandoning the District once their children reached school age:
I'm sorry. You were right. I was wrong.
After nearly 20 years in the city's Takoma neighborhood, the last six in a century-old house that my wife and I thought we'd grow old in, we have forsaken the city for the suburbs.
Given recent optimistic news about the city's schools, this may seem the equivalent of buying high and selling low. And though I don't know new D.C. schools Chancellor Michelle Rhee, what I know of Mayor Adrian Fenty and Deputy Mayor for Education Victor Reinoso (a former neighbor) tells me that real change will come, sooner or later, to D.C. public schools.
The thing is, with a second-grader who has already read the first two Harry Potter books, I can't wait the four or five years it will take to begin to undo decades of neglect and mismanagement of District schools, much less the additional time needed to create programs for the gifted and talented.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Yep, and that "reform" is always, of course, more money.
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/2003-05-21/news/rich-black-flunking/
This is a district in Ohio but illustrates my point somewhat. It focuses on black students but the jist of it is the same. It’s also something nobody wants to admit...except guys like Bill Cosby who then get rejected by their own.
There's a name for people who want the government to come up with detailed "solutions" for every perceived difficulty any human may encounter.
And that name ain't "conservative."
The beautiful thing about vouchers is the details don't have to be decided by the centralized authority. Because if each aspect of the system has to be planned in advance, it becomes impossible to make progress, as your list of problems so amply demonstrates.
If the elite school is an hour away, there are probably other schools that are closer, that while they are not your first choice, are certainly much better than the marginally performing public schools we have today. As an education consumer, you have to make the best choice between convenience and quality, just like you do when you are choosing anything else in life.
As for additional costs associated with a higher quality education, what is the problem with that? Quality costs more. For people who value a quality education above all else, they will make sacrifices in other aspects of life in order to afford the expenses. Others, who are willing to make do with less, will spend less. Once you accept that people will make rational decisions in the best interests of their children, this becomes a not-unpleasant prospect.
As far as availability is concerned, that is what makes elite schools elite. They will choose the best students they can of the pool that they attract. Schools that are not of quite the same level, but still providing an excellent level of education, will accept students from the pool that remains, and so on down the line. The beauty of this is that each student winds up in a situation that is appropriate for their situation.
As far as teacher pay is concerned, some schools will probably pay more, some will pay less. Teachers will make similar choices of the quality of the teaching environment vs. the rate of pay and convenience, just like everybody else.
And all of these millions and millions of detail are worked out by the people involved, without somebody controlling it all from the top.
Last I heard, public school teachers have a tendency to enroll their kids in private schools at a rate exceeding that of the national average.
Course, I know some public school teachers who homeschool, too.
I went thru the P.G. County school system (Northwestern H.S. 1978) and I can attest that they were going downhill then. I still live in the area and I don’t think they’ve gotten any better although they might claim it.
Yes; and these 'collectivists' go even further. . .
. . .it is ironic; that the people who otherwise eschew 'God'. . .Faith and religion. . .and all substance in between. . .are those who by turn, practice their idiology as a religion and much like a 'Fundalmentalist'. . .save for they imagine they ARE themselves; the 'god' here; and their obligatory practice is to insure that we all abide by the rules they ordain.
It is the old sarcasm; in this case; of 'who died and made you God'?
The problem of the question answers itself; almost.
You leave out a few things.
Teachers Unions became all powerful in the 1960s and put benefits/pay in front of teaching.
God was kicked out of the schools in the 1960s.
PC crap was introduced as schools started to leave the 3 Rs...
Most of us who recognize that the current system isn't working (and why) think vouchers may be the next step. Of course, there are a lot of folks smarter than me, and who knows what someone will think up? If education is as important as everyone says it is, it's worth doing right...don't you think?
The Soviet Model didn't work for government or business...it's not clear why some think it will best educate our children. Monopolies don't work; especially, government monopolies don't work. Public schools today are very much like the Soviet era stores...nothing much on the shelves, and what's there is old, unusable, or unwanted. If, as you say, the Soviets copied our system, it doesn't serve to validate it...it raises warning flags.
We recognize that choice is good for people, that they are most likely to act in their own self interest. Why does anyone advocate differently for the decisions people make about their children's education? Why do we "allow" teachers to send their children to private schools? Why is choice good for some, but not others?
Who here would entrust their children's education to a school board elected by the same electorate who kept sending Marion Berry back to office? Anyone? Buehler?
Not the guy in this article, fer sure...and not most parents who have a realistic choice. The problem is, most don't.
So...what conclusions do you draw about the fact that public school teachers are much more likely than the general population to send their children to private schools? I say they have drawn conclusions about the quality of the education they deliver, and they are damning.
I don't understand the idea that public schools are good enough for someone else's children, but not their own...it suggests to me educators aren't fit to judge what is appropriate for my child. It suggests that they are elitist in ways that make the segregationists of the '50s public minded by comparison.
Back to your post...you mentioned US dominance of the world economically led one to conclude the public school system did a "more than adequate" job of educating US children. Were you grading a history test, I think the red pencil (are those still used?) would come out. You would point out that the US economy had two major, major advantages going forward from 1946...it was in one piece, not bombed to rubble...and it was the freest economy in the world.
It isn't possible to conclude that education system was competent or responsible in any way, much less all...in a hurricane, even turkeys can fly...if one grants that being blown around is "flying." It's also quite a leap to conclude that the product the schools deliver is the same product delivered 60 years ago. Demonstrably it's not.
You then mention opportunity cost. Tell me, what is the opportunity cost of the $$$ that to large degree have been pi$$ed away on a dysfunctional system? What is the opportunity cost of the millions of students who graduated (or not) less than educated? What is the opportunity cost incurred in waiting for the next great theory to flop?
Your comment:
The first, and most obvious, misconnect is that the GI Bill applied only to mature adults who were self-motivated and self-selected to continue their education. Contrast this to parents (who may, or may not, be mature adults) making decisions for children who neither necessarily self-motivated (in general) nor self-selected (think truancy laws).
Yet, you propose that no choice is superior to that. No, let me correct that...if any alternative is less than perfect, it isn't acceptable as an alternative to this demonstrably flawed system.
When choice is possible, alternatives exist and are used. We can then compare the results of each method and draw conclusions about their effectiveness...and many other things besides. When it's apparent how important engaged and committed parents are to a child's well being, we'll create a concensus for parenting standards. Those who don't measure up face losing their children...because we won't be BSing anymore about why Johnny can't read.
You mention the GI Bill. One is totally free to select any school they can be admitted to. You might want to address the fact that America's public schools rank far down in terms of quality...but our system of universities and coilleges is regarded to be the best in the world. The difference, of course, is choice. Next:
Now, consider that the payback of investment for societal investment in the public education system for children is, at best, 12 years, vice 4 for the GI Bill. Additionally, consider that absent the mature adult/self-motivation/self-selection criteria for the public school system a potentially large percentage of the investment is non-productive in terms of adequate payback (true whether a voucher system or not). A voucher system may address some portion of this problem at an increased systemic cost, but any proof that it would adequately improve the payback of the current system is pure speculation.
Flawed analysis; false alternatives. You set up a logical maze where the $$$ spent under a voucher program do not pass your analysis of adequate return on investment. Why did you not employ the same analysis on public schools? If I apply your criteria to the public schools, I reach the same place I am now...believing we are pumping money into a dysfunctional system.
It's not a question of whether we're going to have a system of public schools...but whether we'll have publicly funded, private schools, freely chosen by parents...or a government monopoly, run for all intents and purposes by special interests, most notably the NEA.
If I tried to design the most flawed system for delivering education, I couldn't come close to the current system.
Next:
A much stronger argument could be made for returning to the model for public education that existed prior to the 1960s/1970s in this country. However, it is certainly possible to object to this assertion on the basis of a permanently changed world, i.e., more urban/less rural communities, computers, internet, iPods, cable TV, etc. Nonetheless, there is proof that the model worked where there is no proof for a pre-college voucher system.
We're told that we can't teach reading or math or science or anything else the same way we used to, because "the world has changed." Why, then, would returning to some earlier time and method work? What is the difference?
Society is different; leftists have made it so. Your earlier model worked because society's values worked. The public schools don't work anymore because those values are different. Thank a hippie. Imagine a 1940s teacher in today's classroom, trying to teach using 1940s methods. It's a question of whom he'd be in more trouble with...the principal, the parents, or the union.
Vouchers are a threat because no reasonable and informed person would choose to send their children to a union run, government monopoly school. Theories aside, it doesn't take a lot of intelligence to see what works and what doesn't.
You newbies are all alike, fly off the handle at the drop of a hat!
At the risk of suffering a barrage of attacks myself, I will reply.
1. How do you propose for teachers to maintain classroom decorum and discipline when a great many of the students never experience anything similar at home?
Quite frankly, I don't expect much in the way of decorum or discipline. If there has been none at home, the only way you're going to achieve that in school is with "prison-like discipline". Otherwise, forget it.
2. What are you proposing to counter the lack of male role models in the home? (There is a 30% illegitimacy rate total and nearly a 70% such rate among African-Americans, or blacks, if you prefer.)
There really isn't much to propose, except to do everything possible to discourage childbirth among these women. When illegitimacy rates rise to 70-80%, a stable home/family environment is no longer the "norm" - it has become the abberation. I sadly predict there really isn't any program or "solution" to solve this, other than, again, discouraging reproduction among these women by any means possible.
4. How do you propose to keep teachers from being punished for poor performance by their students when the students arrive on the first day of class already so deficient in basic academic skills that there is no hope of getting them up to an acceptable standard for assessment tests by the end of the year?
I don't propose that the teachers be punished. It's not their fault.
It doesn't matter how well-equipped your sawmill may be - you can't mill good lumber from "bad timber". What comes out can be no better than what's going in.
It's really that simple. That's why the problems are so intractable, and why after all the money and time spent to try to change things, that nothing seems to work.
It's also why the only thing for Euro-Americans (of ANY political persuasion) to do is to "escape" such environments. The writer of the article may exemplify liberalism and all its ills, but he is smart enough to to understand that if he wants a decent and disciplined education for his kids, that the only way to obtain it is in a ... um..... "less diverse" environment.
You have posed the difficult questions. But tell me, in all honestly: what are your own "answers"?
- John
LOL!
Take a look at John Gatto's work. The PS problems go a lot further back than the NEA, which is just a symptom, not a cause.
frivolous lawsuits, courts, and teachers-as-victims
Close but not quite. A big problem *is* education law which (among other things) hamstrings public schools from enforcing discipline. However you are correct that teachers are victimized (next to the students themselves) by the public school prison system.
vouchers...
maybe defund...
or at least consider the Belgian model. We're at the bottom of the industrialized nations in terms of effective schooling. What does work is done in those other countries. This is studiously ignored by the NEA and US ed schools. Along with charter schools and vouchers and homeschooling.
Al Gore Nobel Prize
Nobel Peace Prize is a fraud and Al Gore was neither a good student nor is he now a good scientist. Al Gore' story reinforces the notion of failed liberal agendas.
Thomas Jefferson and citizenry with the power to change
TJ wrote the Declaration of Independence and believed in the applicability of revolution when all other avenues of change were blocked. It seems clear to almost any sentient being who has had recent contact with a public school that things are destined to get worse (much, much worse) before citizens wake up enough such that enough system change will occur in order for conditions to get better. Even then, they would still need to put a stake through the heart of the NEA, currently possibly the nation's most powerful political lobby.
(So, as a precaution, BLOAT.)
This would further hurt teachers defending themselves against the biased court system.
A basic, comprehensive, inexpensive, legal liability policy would be available to any, ...
Already is, through charter school teachers' associations.
The notion that teacher's insurance is only available through the teachers' unions is propaganda pushed by the teachers' unions. Whenever and wherever you hear it, you can count on knowing that the teacher's union controls the source of the statement. (Typically it is spoken by school district HR when a teacher is hired and HR needs the teacher to "volunteer" to join the teachers' union, or by ed school profs whenever credential students inquire as to whether this or that PC teaching method is actually required in an operating public school.)
Most of the other stuff might be OK except that the NEA, ed schools, and PC bleeding heart liberals would oppose it. Which means short of another revolution, it probably won't happen.
Always good advice...
So, let's stop speculating and start educating. Let's get some voucher programs up and running and see what happens. Where they have been tried on a pilot scale, the results have been very encouraging. It is time to put the theory into practice.
A much stronger argument could be made for returning to the model for public education that existed prior to the 1960s/1970s in this country.
It seems that that model would not differ significantly from the disfunctional schools we have now. It's not like we threw the baby out with the bathwater in 1970. The deterioration of schools has been a gradual downward slide. Reforming the system in it's current configuration would be a gradual upward climb, if it occurs at all.
Why enshrine the current disfunctional system and subject yet another generation to sub-standard education? Time to try something new.
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