Posted on 10/21/2007 8:35:38 PM PDT by jellybean
Everybody Was Good; Fred, Rudy, and Huck Were Best Wow. By far, the best debate of the cycle in either party. Just about everybody came out swinging, took some lumps, countered, made the crowd laugh, spurred applause, and jabbed at the moderators. The crowd was fired up, and the moderators took an aggressive tack that shook any lingering lethargy out of the candidates. Feel confident, Republicans. One way or another, the GOP is going to have a good debater representing it next year.
Winner or winners? Tough to call, because I think we saw just about every candidate at their best tonight, even the no-hopers like Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo. So I’ll classify the participants a bit differently this evening:
Helped Themselves a Lot Tonight:
Fred Thompson: Frankly, he needed it. He really should have gotten a bigger chunk of the vote at the Family Research Council summit straw poll, and let’s face it, we had been waiting for any speech, any debate appearance, any event with Thompson to be a “wow, that was fantastic.” Well, tonight was that moment we’ve been waiting for, maybe none better than his answer to Wendell Goler’s question/accusation of laziness. His answer on the lobbying for the abortion group was strong, too – ‘look at my votes, and the pro-choice folks I worked for are pulling this out now because they fear me.’ Finally – finally! – we’re seeing what we wanted to see in Thompson – homespun, able to make his case simply, directly, and clearly, and with a bit of humor here and there.
Rudy Giuliani: The first time I thought Rudy Giuliani could be president was at his 2004 convention speech, where he hit all kinds of emotional notes just right. Similar performance tonight – maybe heavy on laughs - but it worked. Pugnacious, quick thinker on his feet, engaging. And, as usual, if you lead the polls, and nobody walks out of a debate talking about your gaffes or bad answers (and other than a slightly weird joke about not being sure that he didn’t accidentally perform a gay marriage, Rudy didn’t have many bad moments) you won. Rudy won’t lose ground; this is a candidate and a campaign hitting all cylanders at just the right time. He took some shots, but the attacks were probably old news to those following the race day in, day out.
Mike Huckabee: After the FRC summit, he’s the social conservative choice, and if he gets the nomination, Hillary won’t know what hit her. This guy can sell ice to Eskimos. Kept his momentum, and played against his "the funny one" typecasting with his argument, "there's nothing funny about Hillary Clinton as Commander in Chief."
Probably Helped Themselves a Little Tonight:
John McCain: Some great lines, and once again, a candidate felt the need to salute McCain’s service in the miltiary as well as in the Senate. We’ll see if this performance does him good in the polls – he did a great speech at the FRC, and it got him nowhere. I think the aspect I liked most was that he could jab at his rivals, but it never seemed too nasty or cranky. He’s got stature. He’s a well-established brand name, and I wonder if he’s turning into everyone’s second or third choice.
Mitt Romney: One of his strongest performances, but it seemed like somebody put a “kick me” sign on his back right before he went on. On the other hand, it’s a sign of where he is in the race that Thompson, Giuliani, and McCain see value in attacking him at this moment. Kathryn said he could have used the PowerPoint slides on one answer. But great jabs at Hillary, and seemed to feed off the crowd's energy.
Oh, and I vote for the mussed-up hair.
Thanks For Playing: Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo, and Ron Paul. Come back when you’re at ten percent in one of the early primary states or a national poll.
UPDATE: In my e-mailbox, every campaign thinks their guy won. I know this will come as a great surprise to you. I pledge, any campaign that sends me an e-mail: "EXPERTS AGREE: OUR GUY LOST, BIG-TIME; PUNDITS CALL PERFORMANCE 'CATASTROPHIC' AND 'EMBARRASSING" I will print in this space in its entirety.
Unfortunately, Huckabee also has a poor record on taxing and spending, and tends toward the nanny state (e.g., he admirably quit smoking and lost weight — but now he proposes to use the power of government to make others do so).
Huckabee seems like a nice man and is obviously a great speaker, but he would lose many in the small-government segment of the Reagan coalition, plus he would lose people on the immigration issue.
If you are talking about the primaries then fine.
In the general election under no circumstance can we let Hillary win. This was a unanimous comment tonight at the debate.
More important to me than all of the policy issues which I would think would be disasterous, is the issue of corruption. Look at Doug from Upland’s threads on FR. Look at Hillary’s current fundraising - Hsu, chinese dishwashers each spending $1,000 - $2,000 bucks and there is no difference with the past. Corruption trumps all issues for me.
I hope that you do understand what a disaster Hillary would be. At the very least, a possibility of Hillary becoming president should be very frightening and your thoghts should be that we can’t let this happen under any circumstances.
When the Republican nominee is named, I will becoming after every conservative (thru discussion) that will not support the nominee (the effect of which is to support Hillary in some way).
Right now it is premature as we have not nominated anyone. Perhaps Rudy will not be nominated. I will be making the point to all conservatives that in this election against Hillary we must support the Republican nominee. I do not care whether you agree right now with this especially since this choice is only hypothetical at this point as it is just the primary season. I understand and respect your doing everything to get your candidate nominated - even to trying to stop Rudy.
Video here.Fred takes Rudy and Mitt to task. Here's video of a great exchange where Fred really gives it to Rudy and Mitt. Rudy looked weak in this exchange, likely because he knew Fred really handed it to him.
Notice that Fred was able to successfully rebut Rudy's attack, but Rudy retreated away from Fred's attack and immediately shifted to what he did for New York City as mayor.
That's pretty telling folks...
If you prefer that kind of politician, I suppose he looked like the classic politico. FOX was fawning over him as usual.
Everyone thinks their guy did best... but my guy is the only one that TRULY did best. lol
Wasn’t Roger Ailes Giuliani’s media director during his ‘89 mayoral campaign? The Fox bias is blatant.
I continue to enjoy your debate commentary, btw. :) I think in general the live thread was more interesting and less vitriolic this time.
No doubt about Rooty in this conservative, I won't vote for him in the primary or in the general if he's nominated. A man who condones and is not committed to ending the American holocaust that has killed over 8 times more unborn human beings than Jews killed by Hitler doesn't have the moral character to be president of the USA.
""In selecting men for office, let principle be your guide. Regard not the particular sect or denomination of the candidate, look to his character. When a citizen gives his vote to a man of known immorality, he abuses his civic responsibility, he sacrifices not only his interest, but that of his neighbor; he betrays the interest of his country."
Noah Webster, 1823
Even as far down the road to ruin as the US is at this point in time, and that's a long way IMHO , it still deserves better than a pro-abortion, pro-homosexual "rights", pro-illegal immigration, anti-2nd Amendment, cross-dressing mayor of a "sanctuary city" in the highest office in the land. If the Log Cabin Republicans, Planned Parenthood, NARAL, Sarah Brady, and their ilk want their good buddy Rooty let them organize their own party and nominate him. The GOP has never before supported the agenda of those groups and this is no time for it to start.
first postive step. Throw ronpaul off the island.
The focus group man said it best. “Ronpaul IS INSANE.”
I agree with your comment about his sit down with H&C. Fred does very well in those situations, but that is not the way politics are played these days. If he could sit down and talk to all the potential voters in their living rooms I think he would have a great chance, but in reality he has to go out and go toe to toe with others who are better in the format of the 30-60 sec sound bite answer. I do not like this way of picking candidates, it is a little to commercial for my taste, but that is the world we live in.
Fred is a bright man with some great ideas who understands what is facing this country as we move forward in a hostile world. When he does his PH stints or has a chance to do commentary he is great and very convincing, but as Newt, someone else who’s ideas I like has pointed out, it is hard to express big ideas in a 60 second answer. Fred could be of greatest service by doing his commentary, countering the liberal spin and opening the country’s eyes to our looming problems, much like RR did for years before his run for the WH.
Yes, they were good, as was McCain, but so was Tancredo, whose comment on the constitutionality of the Feds getting involved in health care was perhaps the evening’s best point.
“FRed voted for trade with 1 billion consumers.”
You’re trying to make a NEGATIVE sound like a positive. It’s not. We have an approximately $250 BILLION trade imbalance EACH YEAR with Red China.
More $$ for Red China to build it’s military.
Your post is pretty much unreadable.
Calculatus eliminatus... The debate was put on by FOX... so Rooty of course!
Sean Hannity swooning over Rooty makes me want to nauseous, sorry.
Focus groups told Mitt’s lawyer that Mitt was “too polished.”
YIKES! worth repeating!
“I won’t vote for him in the primary or in the general if he’s nominated.”
I won’t vote for Rudy, either.
Yes! I agreed with Tancredo when he said that! I was waiting for the moderator to ask Fred about health care, but they never did. His answer would have been basically the same.
It’s odd that a Catholic would be supporting someone who is in favor of killing babies.
My sentiments exactly. I will vote for Rudy or whomever is the repub nom in the general election. I like a few things about Rudy and I’ve seen what he did for NYC while he was Mayor. I dislike a few things but when it comes to the general election, I’d support him against ANY dem nom.
I can’t wait to see who wins the dem nom.
It’s interesting. My husband was so sure two months ago, a month ago even, that Hillary would NEVER win POTUS no matter what. Then tonight, he thinks she will win the dem nom and possibly POTUS. He thinks the next POTUS pretty much HAS to be a dem because of the Iraq War backlash. Just because the country is so soft and wishy washy about War today. But he thinks a Hillary/Obama ticket won’t win but a Edwards/Hillary ticket would win (hillary as VP).
I voted for Bush both times and I’m glad I did. I hate his illegal alien crap and lack of border security but appreciate his SC appointments and stand on the WOT, etc. The latter would be better if we had serious border control and none of this illegal alien crap they keep trying to shove down our throats.
There’s always some compromise, imo, there’s no *perfect* candidate.
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