Posted on 10/21/2007 8:35:38 PM PDT by jellybean
Everybody Was Good; Fred, Rudy, and Huck Were Best Wow. By far, the best debate of the cycle in either party. Just about everybody came out swinging, took some lumps, countered, made the crowd laugh, spurred applause, and jabbed at the moderators. The crowd was fired up, and the moderators took an aggressive tack that shook any lingering lethargy out of the candidates. Feel confident, Republicans. One way or another, the GOP is going to have a good debater representing it next year.
Winner or winners? Tough to call, because I think we saw just about every candidate at their best tonight, even the no-hopers like Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo. So I’ll classify the participants a bit differently this evening:
Helped Themselves a Lot Tonight:
Fred Thompson: Frankly, he needed it. He really should have gotten a bigger chunk of the vote at the Family Research Council summit straw poll, and let’s face it, we had been waiting for any speech, any debate appearance, any event with Thompson to be a “wow, that was fantastic.” Well, tonight was that moment we’ve been waiting for, maybe none better than his answer to Wendell Goler’s question/accusation of laziness. His answer on the lobbying for the abortion group was strong, too – ‘look at my votes, and the pro-choice folks I worked for are pulling this out now because they fear me.’ Finally – finally! – we’re seeing what we wanted to see in Thompson – homespun, able to make his case simply, directly, and clearly, and with a bit of humor here and there.
Rudy Giuliani: The first time I thought Rudy Giuliani could be president was at his 2004 convention speech, where he hit all kinds of emotional notes just right. Similar performance tonight – maybe heavy on laughs - but it worked. Pugnacious, quick thinker on his feet, engaging. And, as usual, if you lead the polls, and nobody walks out of a debate talking about your gaffes or bad answers (and other than a slightly weird joke about not being sure that he didn’t accidentally perform a gay marriage, Rudy didn’t have many bad moments) you won. Rudy won’t lose ground; this is a candidate and a campaign hitting all cylanders at just the right time. He took some shots, but the attacks were probably old news to those following the race day in, day out.
Mike Huckabee: After the FRC summit, he’s the social conservative choice, and if he gets the nomination, Hillary won’t know what hit her. This guy can sell ice to Eskimos. Kept his momentum, and played against his "the funny one" typecasting with his argument, "there's nothing funny about Hillary Clinton as Commander in Chief."
Probably Helped Themselves a Little Tonight:
John McCain: Some great lines, and once again, a candidate felt the need to salute McCain’s service in the miltiary as well as in the Senate. We’ll see if this performance does him good in the polls – he did a great speech at the FRC, and it got him nowhere. I think the aspect I liked most was that he could jab at his rivals, but it never seemed too nasty or cranky. He’s got stature. He’s a well-established brand name, and I wonder if he’s turning into everyone’s second or third choice.
Mitt Romney: One of his strongest performances, but it seemed like somebody put a “kick me” sign on his back right before he went on. On the other hand, it’s a sign of where he is in the race that Thompson, Giuliani, and McCain see value in attacking him at this moment. Kathryn said he could have used the PowerPoint slides on one answer. But great jabs at Hillary, and seemed to feed off the crowd's energy.
Oh, and I vote for the mussed-up hair.
Thanks For Playing: Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo, and Ron Paul. Come back when you’re at ten percent in one of the early primary states or a national poll.
UPDATE: In my e-mailbox, every campaign thinks their guy won. I know this will come as a great surprise to you. I pledge, any campaign that sends me an e-mail: "EXPERTS AGREE: OUR GUY LOST, BIG-TIME; PUNDITS CALL PERFORMANCE 'CATASTROPHIC' AND 'EMBARRASSING" I will print in this space in its entirety.
Nice guy, but he is pro illegals, and we can’t afford another open borders President.
You’re right on target there IMO.
**And it sounded like Ron Paul was booed, maybe more than once.**
Yes, and he didn’t hear the boos from me. LOL! What a dingbat.
Is Huckabee’s tally maybe Dobson using RP’s supporters tactics?
Here’s the Intrade results. Unfortunately I couldn’t get a snapshot prior to the debate. Best evidence shows that Fred Thompson lost and Huckabee won.
2008 Republican Presidential Nominee
2008.GOP.NOM.GIULIANI
Rudy Giuliani to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 43.7 44.2 44.3 118431 +0.1
2008.GOP.NOM.ROMNEY
Mitt Romney to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 25.8 26.5 26.0 98691 0
2008.GOP.NOM.THOMPSON(F)
Fred Thompson to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 11.3 11.4 11.3 89111 -0.7
2008.GOP.NOM.PAUL
Ron Paul to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 6.4 7.3 7.3 69726 -0.2
2008.GOP.NOM.MCCAIN
John McCain to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 6.5 6.8 6.9 147959 +0.4
2008.GOP.NOM.HUCKABEE
Mike Huckabee to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 4.8 4.9 4.9 55649 +1.7
2008.GOP.NOM.HUNTER
Duncan Hunter to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M - 0.1 0.1 27778 0
Tommy Thompson to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M - 0.1 0.1 30079 0
2008.GOP.NOM.TANCREDO
Tom Tancredo to be the Rep Presidential Nominee in 2008 M - 0.1 0.1 31505 0
I can see Giuliani getting big numbers. I just find it rather surprising that Huckabee, a realatively unkown nationally, would get that many votes. Paul is clearly manipulating the system. I’m not going to accuse Mike of that, but it sure looks fishy to me.
ok,
I think Giuliani was pointed out as just like hillary and people REALLY don’t want hillary. Fred Thompson wen for the Jugular and successfully threw Giuliani off.
Thompson did toss back the BS lazy question with a list of the things he has done. (ie shirpaing a USSC nominee through confirmation)
I also thought his spin room interview was a classic example of being relaxed and on focus in a hostile environment. He humiliated colmes and Hanity was just irrelevant. (he could have gone for coffee and just left a list)
On just style points he did set himself as appart from the hair spray shortage and NYC lawyer.
Romeny was Romney
Giulaini was denying he was hillary and worked HARD to not say 9/11 (but he did almost slip ONCE)
Giuliani was giving the same lines.
Huckabee is irrelevant.
Thompson succeeded in being constructivly different.
I'll give you the same advice as far as political analysis goes. The "Fred's old, lazy, sick and married to a trophy wife" talking points are getting old. Time for you guys to come up with something fresh.
**I think Fred won big tonight. **
Me too. I think Fred and Huckabee won tonight.
McCain can forget it, as far as I’m concerned. Three words: Campaign finance reform. He showed his stripes, and I won’t forget OR forgive it!
Ron Paul is a total joke. Where is he getting his financing?
Fred..... I loved his comment about the swimmer. THAT was GOOD!
I didn’t think I liked Rudy for CIC. I’m starting to re-think that.
It’s still early. We shall see......
I really liked that Ross Perot guy...he had a good line about working under the hood.He needs to talk to that talk guy at CNN
I truly hope it doesn’t come down to Rudy vs. Hillary, but if it does, I’ll vote for Rudy.
No point being a crybaby about it.
It’s all about two or three Supreme Court appointments; Hillary will appoint young liberal activists and Rudy will not. Simple as that.
FRegards,
LH
Ron Paul reminds me of the bastard child of Ross Perot and Gomer Pyle...with a little Art Bell thrown in for good measure.
I would agree that is the key issue. Lancy, we all have to do what seems best. One way or another this nation is moving to the left during every single administration. It has to stop. If it doesn’t soon, it won’t matter one bit who serves in the White House.
Any US senator who aided and abetted the high crimes and misdemeanors of Bill Clinton does not deserve to sit in the Senate, let alone the White House. Enjoy retirement, Fred.
As flippant as I can be about his candidacy and his supporters, I really think Duncan is a good man also. Performances like tonight don’t serve him well.
Tanc’s gotta go too, but for some reason, in spite of his stumbles, he always seems to serve more of a purpose at each debate.
FRed voted for trade with 1 billion consumers. The previous and present administrations made the dirty deals. I have zero issues with that vote.
The CFR deal is regrettable, and FRed does regret it. He is the kind of man that can, and does, admit to his mistakes without spin. You saw him do it tonight, he’s done it in the past, and there is no reason to doubt he will admit to any others that he makes.
No one is perfect, and his intentions were pure.
Regardless, the reality is, at this point, for Duncan and Tanc, (two guys I respect), to stay only, diverts and divides. We are a party in shambles, we need as much unity and focus and we can muster.
I adore Hannity, but I feel like he supports Rudy becuase they are friends, and also because he thinks that Rudy can beat Hilary. That type of thinking didn’t work out for Kerry.
Also, I don’t think Rudy will get the nomination. Remember how everyone thought Howard dean was a lock for the Dem nod?
Things can change quickly.
From an applause standpoint, Hunter won, with Thompson second.
In the focus group, only three out of twenty-five wanted Rudy.
I myself have a newfound softspot for McCain, but I don't think I can pull the lever for him.
Conclusion: we need to get herdin' our own cats and quick. We are in utter disarray.
Welcome to Free Republic. Back up your idiot assertions with facts, please. Just how did Fred Thompson aide and abet Bill Clinton? Hmm?
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