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Why Flying Now Can Kill
http://www.washingtonpost.com ^ | 10/14/07 | A.L. Bardach

Posted on 10/14/2007 10:13:04 AM PDT by BCrago66

I am haunted by the death of Carol Anne Gotbaum.

I didn't know the mother of three who died shackled to a bench in the Phoenix airport on Sept. 28, en route to an alcohol treatment center in Tucson. I don't know, beyond what I read in the newspapers, what troubles weighed on her. But I do know this: Based on my own recent flight experiences, hers was a death foretold.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aviation; death; gotbaum
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To: Vigilanteman
I don’t know if you are aware of it but back when U.S. Air was Allegheny Airlines their nickname was “Agony Airlines” cause it was agony to fly them!
21 posted on 10/14/2007 10:51:21 AM PDT by proudofthesouth (Liberals work to make people victims in order to enslave them.)
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To: NonValueAdded
We must do everything possible to accomodate the mentally ill lest they throw a fit to get their way?

Who is "we"? I don't work for US Airlines or Mesa, do you? "Everything possible"? How about letting passengers with confirmed, paid-for tickets who show up on time take their seats? Hardly sounds unreasonable to me.

There is no way the airline is at fault in this case. They did everything they could to accomodate her short of causing a delay for all the other passengers on that flight.

Your account is at odds with what's printed in the article. It appears the woman was on time according to the rules set by US Airways, and was kept out of her seat anyway. She was then denied a seat on the next flight. While most of us will not die of exasperation like this unfortunate, fragile woman, I've spent enough time at airports watching irate flyers get screwed over repeatedly by the airlines, their cynical booking policies, and their over-worked, petty employees to believe that death by airline obnoxiousness is certainly possible.
22 posted on 10/14/2007 10:54:36 AM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: BCrago66

First of all thanks for posting this. This give a completely new spin on the story.

Secondly its stories like this that make me glad that I’m in a job where I don’t have to fly anymore.


23 posted on 10/14/2007 10:56:33 AM PDT by proudofthesouth (Liberals work to make people victims in order to enslave them.)
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To: Vigilanteman

Sorry to keep coming back with only partially developed thoughts, but perhaps part of the problem is with government subsidies and/or lenient bankruptcy judges, which seem to allow these airlines to stiff their creditors, re-organize, and then survive only to stiff their creditors (and customers) once again. I know that some airlines have been twice bankrupt, and that USAir has gone through bankruptcy at least once.

Maybe instead of allowing these debt-ridden, poorly managed businesses to keep screwing the customer, bankruptcy judges should - within the discretion allowed by the pertinent statutes - allow these airlines to just liquidate and die.


24 posted on 10/14/2007 10:57:33 AM PDT by BCrago66
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To: proudofthesouth
I guess the 40+ treatment centers in NYC should be shut down.
After all she had to go to Arizona for treatment.

http://www.theagapecenter.com/Treatment-Centers/New-York.htm

25 posted on 10/14/2007 11:00:22 AM PDT by troy McClure
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To: Tomato lover

The woman is to blame in the first place, the husband takes the second spot. Any idiot that expects an alcoholic to fly alone to rehab is not putting the needs of the alcoholic above their own. The airline is not responsible for the delivery of drunks to rehab.
I expect the airlines to protect their passengers from drunks and other nuts.


26 posted on 10/14/2007 11:02:47 AM PDT by Blacksheep
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To: KTM rider

> [quote]Still, she was denied her reserved seat on the 1:30 flight. Nor did they allow her to board the next flight at 2:58 — which, of course, was also overbooked. Finally, Mesa’s counter personnel refused to let willing passengers switch with the clearly distraught Gotbaum. When she began to weep and protest, they called the police, who handcuffed her arms behind her back and dragged her away to a holding cell. They left her chained alone to a bench, crying inconsolably. Not long after, she was found dead, the chain shackling her to the bench stretched across her throat[/quote]

This is the part I don’t understand. If she was in a secure and confined holding area, why was she still handcuffed? Why was she handcuffed in the first place? Was she being violent? Did she spazz out, or do something that could not have otherwise been resolved by a burly security guard showing her the exit door?

Handcuffs are not designed to be worn for extended periods of time: only as long as it takes to get the prisoner to proper confined quarters. Fifteen minutes is more than enough time for most folk. An hour is considered a very long time, and two hours would be excessive.

Cuffing someone to a bench unsupervised would surely be against policy, if not against the law. Prisoners are generally not supposed to be left handcuffed and unsupervised.

I also don’t quite understand how she managed to choke herself with her chains. I’d need to see a diagram.

There is alot with this story that requires diligent enquiry. Something doesn’t smell right. The whole setup seems mickey-mouse (handcuffing someone to a bench using chains? That sounds Eighteenth-Century at best!)

There is more to this story than meets the eye.


27 posted on 10/14/2007 11:04:20 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: BCrago66

omg.....What a crappy article. The author needs to go back to flipping burgers.


28 posted on 10/14/2007 11:05:26 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Islam is a clown car with guns.)
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To: KTM rider

“There is a lot more evidence that she was murdered by airport police, than there is that her behavior warranted the death penalty for having a medical/mental condition.”

***

Actually, most of what is out there now consists of rumor, speculation, accusation and innuendo. More than a few reports, especially initially, were out and out wrong. I’m not sure we have any actual evidence of a crime committed against Ms. Gottbaum. Investigation (actually more than one investigation)into the matter is still going on. I’m not blaming or defending anyone at this point...I’d just rather wait till the investigations are over and some actual evidence is in.

I personally think this Washington Post article is irreponsible at this point. What is its purpose, besides inciting hatred and perhaps fear of Useless Air and flying in general? Bad enough that I know some folks who are afraid to fly since 9/11, but why try to instill even more fear and loathing, especially since we don’t know all the facts of this particular situation?


29 posted on 10/14/2007 11:08:44 AM PDT by fatnotlazy
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To: SteveMcKing
[quote]There was no injustice done except in her own behavior.{/quote]

Have you seen the security camera video yet ? It sure looks like airport police choked her to death while other police blocked the view.

.

but then again, I guess chains just get wrapped around peoples necks at random all the time these days. This poor lady reminds me of my ex wife and it brings me to tears thinking about her getting murdered for having an attack of hysteria because injustice was done to her and she snapped. I can understand how very powerful and self important Airport Police would want to kill her in this situationt, My ex was very talented at arousing the emotions. She knew just what to say to evoke anger as she had her attacks of hysteria and cops do not like being disrespected.

30 posted on 10/14/2007 11:10:50 AM PDT by KTM rider (Free Mexico ....Viva La Revolucion)
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To: proudofthesouth
According to the New York Time, Ms. Gotbaum did not make her direct flight because she delayed her departure to take her kids to school. Her family's attorney admits she was late to make the connecting flight in Phoenix- she had 90 minutes to do it. Her family's attorney theorizes she might have had a liquid lunch between flights. She arrived at the gate after boarding had been completed. It doesn't matter if Mesa was rude and mean and shot rubber bands at her- they have absolutley no liability at all. The reason Ms. Gotbaum is dead is because her millionaire husband and Public Advocate mother-in-law couldn't take one day out of their busy lives to escort a seriously ill woman to a treatment center.
31 posted on 10/14/2007 11:12:15 AM PDT by jimboster (fROM)
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To: jimboster

Well said!!!!!!!!


32 posted on 10/14/2007 11:15:50 AM PDT by Blacksheep
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To: jimboster

Well said!!!!!!!!


33 posted on 10/14/2007 11:16:00 AM PDT by Blacksheep
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To: proudofthesouth

My daughter calls the airlines “US Scare”. With the unreliability of all airlines these days, I feel the family was wrong in letting a suicidal woman fly by herself after having duties to do at home like delivering her children to school before she drove herself to the airport. She was extremely fragile at this point and they had been through plenty of experiences taking her to a clinic for alcholics. They knew this might have been her last chance at rehabilitation. She was left on her own at her most vulnerable time and in an air-line night mare.

US Air certainly has its faults in this situation, but the knowledgeable family hoping for the best in a cross-country flight with connectors and cancellations is most at fault.

Cordio


34 posted on 10/14/2007 11:17:48 AM PDT by Cordio
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To: DieHard the Hunter
I also don’t quite understand how she managed to choke herself with her chains. I’d need to see a diagram.

Me either! I cannot, for the life of me, figure it out nor have I read any accounting of exactly how it happened.

35 posted on 10/14/2007 11:18:30 AM PDT by tsmith130
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To: jimboster

Most people here are not arguing that USAir is legally liable for Gotbaum’s death. But the evidence is overwhelming that it is crappy airline, with rude employees, and that it deliberately overbooks its flights because it cannot earn a profit honestly.

That policy creates anxiety in people without emotional problems; it can create greater problems in those with emotional problems. So, in my opinion, there is some moral - not legal - culpability on the part of USAir, although the primary responsibility for her death belongs to the airport authority.


36 posted on 10/14/2007 11:21:31 AM PDT by BCrago66
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To: Blacksheep
[quote]I expect the airlines to protect their passengers from drunks and other nuts. [/quote]

..... and would you authorize this protection method to include dropping of an officers knee from a jump onto the throat of a beautiful young lady held down on the floor because she is angry ? .......have you ever been angry in public ?

37 posted on 10/14/2007 11:27:10 AM PDT by KTM rider (Free Mexico ....Viva La Revolucion)
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To: BCrago66

“...and that it deliberately overbooks its flights because it cannot earn a profit honestly.”

***

Actually, overbooking flights is something most airlines do on a regular basis. Even Southwest, which I very much love more so than Useless Air, habitually overbooks. It’s a perfectly legal and common practice under present laws and industry guidelines.


38 posted on 10/14/2007 11:29:42 AM PDT by fatnotlazy
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To: jimboster

She was suicidal.She had previously tried to kill herself. How difficult was it to get the long chain around her neck? She was found sitting on the floor.


39 posted on 10/14/2007 11:38:18 AM PDT by COUNTrecount
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To: Cordio
Forget that someone was supposed to meet her in Tucson..... Illness, traffic, auto problems can keep someone from doing that.

I don’t understand why SOMEONE in her near/immediate family didn’t accompany her to the treatment center.

If they cared so much for her one would think that someone would have.

40 posted on 10/14/2007 11:39:44 AM PDT by proudofthesouth (Liberals work to make people victims in order to enslave them.)
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