Posted on 10/11/2007 5:20:46 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Here is a copy of the first article I read, but I will address what I found out from Senators Boxers office and Sen. Fienstiens office today (10/11/07). I know this has been posted here before, BUT, it has now PASSED in Congress!
Read on:
Veterans Disarmament Act To Bar Vets From Owning Guns Larry Pratt
Sunday September 23, 2007
Hundreds of thousands of veterans -- from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom -- are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted.
How? The Veterans Disarmament Act -- which has already passed the House -- would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list.
This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.
The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away ... forever. It is section 102((1)©(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system.
Those names -- like the 83,000 records mentioned above -- will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.
No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation. The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY).
Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate.
Proponents of the bill say that helpful amendments have been made so that any veteran who gets his name on the NICS list can seek an expungement.
But whenever you talk about expunging names from the Brady NICS system, you're talking about a procedure that has always been a long shot. Right now, there are NO EXPUNGEMENTS of law-abiding Americans' names that are taking place under federal level.
Why? Because the expungement process which already exists has been blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by another anti-gunner, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY).
So how will this bill make things even worse?
Well, two legal terms are radically redefined in the Veterans Disarmament Act to carry out this vicious attack on Veterans' gun rights.
One term relates to who is classified a "mental defective." Forty years ago that term meant one was adjudicated "not guilty" in a court of law by reason of insanity. But under the Veterans Disarmament Act, "mental defective" has been stretched to include anyone whom a psychiatrist determines might be a tiny danger to self or others.
The second term is "adjudicate." In the past, one could only lose one's gun rights through an adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court -- meaning conviction after a trial. Adjudication could only occur in a court with all the protections of due process, including the right to face one's accuser.
Now, adjudication in HR 2640 would include a finding by "a court, commission, committee or other authorized person" (namely, a psychiatrist).
Forget the fact that people with PTSD have the same violent crime rate as the rest of us. Vietnam vets with PTSD have had careers and obtained permits to carry firearms concealed.
It will now be enough for a psychiatric diagnosis (a "determination" in the language of the bill) to get a veteran barred for life from owning guns.
Think of what this bill would do to veterans. If a robber grabs your wallet and takes everything in it, but gives you back $5 to take the bus home, would you call that a financial enhancement? If not, then we should not let HR 2640 supporters call the permission to seek an expungement an enhancement, when prior to this bill, veterans could not legitimately be denied their gun rights after being diagnosed with PTSD.
Veterans with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with due process) of doing anything wrong.
If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a real trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist.
If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."
If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."
Because my next mission will be to tear down the NRA!
Since Charleston Heston hasn’t been able to run it, it’s been run over by a bunch of liberal policy wonks!
We’ve had guns in this house and raised 5 boys. Not once did any of them touch them. You teach them respect for them, and how to use them. They learn to fear them, because to not to, to have a bravado about them, gets people killed.
I was raised around guns my whole life, as were all my cousins. Not one person ever had a hunting accident. Because there was always an adult with the child. Even until they became 19.
They took safety courses, and knew you did it right or paid a price. Discipline was used if you didn’t. Good ole fashioned discipline. No one was beaten, but they knew it might be used on them if they did something dangerous, or disrespectful.
You know what happened? They respected the adults, listened to them, and had a great time. All the while learning common sense.
The same lessons served them well in school too.
You didn’t talk back to a teacher, you were there to learn.
They all had great grades, and our little grandson has straight “A”s in school now. He’s on his way to be an Eagle Scout like his grandfather before him too. And his older cousin!
So just let the NRA, who used to make sense and advocate for our second amendment try to say something stupid about this bill, HR 2640, section 102 (1)©(iv). They’ve been smoking whacky tobaccy if they think this one should pass.
We know at least 300 people who will resign from their organization. It helps to have been an Aviation Battalion Commanders wife. We loved those people, and have stayed in tough with them. Then there’s flying with another large organization for many many years. MANY of them hunters and NRA members too.
We know people all over the United States, and then they know people all over the United States.
I’m NOT sitting idle on this one, not at all!
Not after seeing how they snuck the House vote in on it like a thief in the night! Time to counter attack, FAST!~~
Amen!
Thanks Squantos!!!!!
People who’ve served, multiple times no less, won’t even be able to seek help because of what could come next! If we want to see a mess, wait until that all hits the fans!
Families torn apart, children terrorized because Mommy or Daddy won’t go get help, help that could help them be ok and be a viable person in society and more importantly, in their family! Vietnam has taught us that! If we didn’t give em enough statistics from that war, I don’t know what these bozo’s need!
We sure didn’t see Vietnam Vets running down the street shooting people and themselves. And if this was going to be a problem, WE WOULD HAVE SEEN IT!
The science project is over. Over 30 years of research is enough! Their theory didn’t pan out.. now they need to back off our troops!
And try instead, giving them a hero’s welcome home!
That’s what they need, that’s whats wrong!
FRiggin idiots!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for your service, and welcome home.
You’re absolutely right, we already have the stats. They’ve been there since our WWII, Korea and Vietnam troops got home. We’ve had no increase in Vets doing shooting spree’s.
Just kids who have no discipline at home or school. Liberals worried about little Johnnie’s psyhic.
The travesty of this (besides being treated as criminals/FELONS who lose their right to bear arms because they committed a crime against society) is that our men and women won’t go in for much needed help if they are “stuck”.
Already, it takes up to 30 years in some cases to get help for PTSD. Now this!
It’s a HUGE slap in the face for those who served this country with honor. Some giving limb, or an eye. Some just their minds.
Some, sometimes taking their lives because the help doesn’t come fast enough.
But when it’s compared to living in the big cities, the crime rates of Gangs, it’s NOTHING!
And many, most live their lives in peace, but in a private agony. Never becomeing the person they were before they left for war.
I just lost my cousin Danny. A gorgeous man. He could have been a model. The sweetest man you’d ever want to know. No gun involved. Alcohol...a lot of the men and women self medicate.
My brother has PTSD too. The men I’ve known, and we’ve talked to quite a few over the years, ...they wouldn’t hurt a flea... they just want to understand what’s wrong with them and how to become normal again.
And now, now we are going to say “You are so NOT NORMAL, that we cannot allow you to bear arms.”
It will be interesting when it passes. Because a TON of troops will not be able to bear arms and return to theatre, be it in Afghanistan or Iraq or elswhere. Even on the streets of the United STates!
The Liberal Congress is trying to destroy us from within...
Some of “these guys” didn’t have jobs. If they did, keeping them were sporatic at best. So using the VA system was there ONLY choice to get help. Some of the psychiatrists were total idiots! Telling my brother he just needed to get off his lazy *ss and go to work. Well, I can assure you, that wasn’t the problem!
I’ve watched my brother work. He worked hard. But it was at jobs that didn’t fit his academic achievements from earlier days at school. He left being one person and came back another. NEVER EVER smiling or laughing like he used too. A recluse, depressed. Having to grow all his food for his kids and wife. A Godly man, who took care of his inlaws, and our folks too.
But his “happiness, the spark of life” he was always known for, was gone. He didn’t dance anymore...
He was affected by what he endured, where my husband who helped in the MASH unit helping the Doc’s and nurses amputating arms and legs, who when he went out on a medicvac mission had bulletts hit patients as they medivaced them out and heard their screams, and had blood flying all around the cockpit. He came home just fine. Why one person is affected one way, and another differently is a matter of how the brain processes these images, these life experiences. But they are real, oh how they are real!
And we know that we haven’t had Vets running up and down the street shooting people. If ever there was a war to do stats about, it would be the Vietnam war. Thanks in large part to the reception we all got upon coming home. Add that to war, and put GUILT on what you went through and we’re lucky as a nation things didn’t go terribly wrong once they came home!
The VA was inept at helping our troops. I pray to God they are helping them now.
But RIGHT NOW they are about to loose their right to bear arms like they are criminals, like they are FELONS!
Every decent citizen needs to help them. They’ve been helping us, it’s the least we can do.
Please call your Senators, then pass around the letter with the link for the Senators Wash. DC phone numbers. We can’t let them down when there busy fighting an enemy that want’s us dead, and don’t even know this is happening!
FRegards
You got it! It’s a really bad message. It could even be a sorry attempt at reinstating the draft by the Dems.
If people are exhausted and starting to complain about PTSD, then this might be a way to change things.
Hey, just reinstate the draft! We wouldn’t have so much PTSD! Get it?
The liberals have always wanted Gun Control. This is a foot in the door. Next it will be any person whose taken ADHD medicines are unfit to bear arms. I just read that piece too.
We have to stop this one now! First of all, our troops deserve better.
Second, they are trying to change our Constitution.
NO WAY!
But thirdly, it makes me sick that our troops must even get wind of it, considering what they’ve been going through.
That even ONE troops might hesitate to get help if they need it, is WRONG!!!!
That’s why this is SO DISGUSTING!
The Dems have NO SHAME! NONE!
I do NOT trust these people as far as I can throw them. I worked in medicine for the Government, and my husband just retired out of the Government. Does anyone have any idea how often they get it wrong?
There are so many loopholes in what I just read that I would NEVER trust our troops futures to this stuff!
They have our Vets medical records, and in some cases (maybe even ALL of them, because they are not definitive) it might take 15 years to get their guns back!
WHAT HAPPENED TO FAMILIES TAKING AWAY WEAPONS IF THEY THINK THERE MIGHT BE A PROBLEM? IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!
NOPE... I’m NOT buying one piece of this crap!
And, they didn’t do a RECORDED vote because no one asked for it!
BULDERDASH!
AND I just fell off a turnip truck! Good grief! How STUPID do they really think we all are?
Then we simply must demand a recount, and we want it "recorded"!!! We ALL need to get a CLUE! Dear Lord help us all if we collectively become this naive!
Tremendous post. The love, respect, and gratitude, that y’all received at The Wall is demonstrative, and representative, of how so many of us feel about all of you who have served and do serve, and your loved ones.
God bless each and every one of you, and God help all of us to know and do all that we can to preserve the freedoms you have sacrificed so much to protect.
If this bill passes, too many to count won't go in for help. I doubt my brother will continue getting help. Though the fact he already has, has probably doomed him if this bill goes through.
Deepest sympathy for your losses. Remember, we're only human, and you tried your best. Forgive yourself. You have to! Honor your friends by remembering that the day they passed was only ONE DAY in their lives. Don't let it be the sum of all you had with them, or all the good times they had with others. I know it had to be horribly traumatic, but there was more... so much more. Let their memories be good ones.
And remember, the enemy wants you to be haunted by your brothers losses. Don't let them continue to win by blaming yourself for what happened. You were in very difficult circumstances. Breaking radio silence could have very well brought the enemy to you. So, please, forgive yourself. Be at peace with this. And know that they are in heaven, not in pain. You'll see them again one day. But DO NOT give these evil people any more power over you! They are NOTHING!! Get it? Do Not allow them to cause pain in your heart and in your mind, they do not deserve one more piece of space in your life. They took enough that fateful night. Don't let them have anymore!
Read our bio's here at FR. We've known war... we support you and we'll be praying for you. Replace what happened that day, with happier memories of your brothers in arms. And yes, it is PTSD. And with time it will heal. Use your mind and heart to heal it. Time heals things. When bad memories come in, replace it with a good one of that person. They'd want it that way.
Utmost respect for your service. Thank you!
We understand the enemy you're fighting. They've been getting ready since the 1300's and they have no plans to stop until either ALL OF US convert, or they kill ALL OF us. World dominance. A world that is totally Islamic.
I'll leave you with a favorite quote of ours and some or our brothers and sisters in arms:
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
~~ John Stuart Mill ~~
John Chapter 15 vs. 13;
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
We're out here fighting for you regarding the PTSD & Gun situation. Your fellow brothers and sisters in arms care.
God Bless!
VH&W
They've been dinning me for a couple of months about it. In support of it. Even if it's everything they say, and I suppose it is, the "dangerous" parts are so bad that it should be round filed, not passed by "The Greatest Deliberative Body in the World", but it won't be, it'll be passed, and President Bush will sign it.
Too late for that, the House has already passed the bill. It's waiting in the Judiciary Committee of the Senate. I'm sure they'll pass it though, probably sooner rather than later. They wouldn't want to pass it too close to the election.
Nope, it was passed by voice vote, 4 months ago!
I believe that it is those elected by the blue states that are guilty of trying to take away our rights and we don't ever get to vote for these individuals so we can't ever do anything about it.
The beauty of a voice vote, as in this case, or "without objection" motions is that you'll never know, and thus can't hold your Lords and Masters representatives to account. They like it that way.
This really needs to get out. In more ways than one.
First of all, the NRA will lose so many memberships their collective heads will spin!
How they EVER supported this is beyond belief.
Secondly, to defy troops, both active duty and Veterans their second ammendment rights, without conviction of any criminal act, of any FELONY convictions, then taking away their rights to bear arms for 15 years, is in itself criminal and communist-socialist governing at it’s best (worst!).
I love how the COWARDS did a voice vote! So none had to answer to the voters.
It’s not to late to stop this in the Senate.
Can you please provide phone numbers for a call in campaign to hit the NRA?
They are TRAITORS to our rights to bear Arms.
I’d LOVE to hear their excuse on this one!
Our troops today need to hear over and over again how much we appreciate them. We owe them our lives, especially in light of this present danger!
They do so much against such an ominous enemy. They can and will win, if our citizens, our country doesn’t coward out! God forbid...
WTF??? UNFRIGGENBELIEVABLE!
“...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
BTTT!
Bump.
We need Dr. No like never before. Ron Paul would veto this bill.
Yeah, agree. We’ve been extremely upset by this. We’ve called our vet friends and called our Senators. Seems their getting calls, lets pray to God there have been enough to stop this insanity.
Otherwise, good decent people will lose their rights to bear arms. For simply having served their country trying to protect all of us!
Insanity!
Try having a voluntary military ever again!
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