Posted on 10/10/2007 11:43:35 PM PDT by Wiz
Turkey has denounced a vote by a US congressional committee recognising as genocide the 1915-17 mass killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks.
President Abdullah Gul said the decision was unacceptable and had no validity for Turkey, which has always denied any genocide took place.
The White House said it was very disappointed by the non-binding vote.
It fears Turkey could now limit co-operation in the war on terror and provision of military bases near Iraq.
The genocide bill passed in the House Foreign Affairs Committee by 27 votes to 21 - the first step towards holding a vote in the House of Representatives.
Divisions within the committee crossed party lines with eight Democrats voting against the measure and eight Republicans voting for it.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...
They insult us and the rest of the Western world by not acknowledging it. Turkish genocide denial is disgusting. Stating the truth that millions were killed in a genocidal bloodbath is an insult only to those who deny the truth. And honestly, I could care less about genocide deniers. If it costs us more money to move our troops and material by sea, then so be it. I have no interest in coddling genocide deniers.
This is just more proof that Turkey really isn't interested in being a Western country. Sarkozy is right in saying that they don't deserve to be in the European Union.
Idoicy
It did occur. And the word you are looking for is backbone. If it insults an ally so be it. I don't want to be an ally to a country that denies butchering millions of people.
>>have their ambassador in US leave with the embassy closed
Looks like they recalled their ambassador.
“Turkey recalls ambassador to U.S. over Armenians”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071011/ts_nm/turkey_iraq_dc_18
This isn’t about Turkey or Armenians.
Its about Democrats using a new method of trying to stop the progress being made in Iraq.
If they insult the Turks enough, they’ll cut off our using Turkey’s airbases, and landroutes, into Iraq.
Many of us know what happened NINETY TWO (92) YEARS AGO in this incident of what can only be described as ‘genocide’.
But thats not why the committee held this vote. They did it in an attempt to get Turkey to stop cooperating with the Bush Administration.
ping for later
I don’t necessarily disagree with your take on Islam. I would agree with your comments about ‘the true Islam’ also, in that different factions always seem destined to purifty those who foster a little different view of what is the correct observance of Islam. As for Islam moderating it’s stance, I haven’t seen any evidence of that either. In fact, I’m not a big fan of us allowing more immigration from Islamic states. IMO, the continuance of that exposes our population to all the destabalizing forces we’ve observed in the midst of Islamic states and regions. A person would have to be an absolute fool to miss the warning signs associated with this situtation.
Now as for Turkey as it relates to our present War on Terrorism, I don’t necessarily disagree with your take on whether it will decide to use military force against our will in the region. What I do think is quite likely is that they could decide that it’s pointless to play along with desires of the U.S. remaining as neutral has they have, and choose instead to aid the terrorists much the same as Syria and Iran are. This is something Turkey could to in a much greater capacity than they have. And our troops would be the ones to have to face the negative impact of this. Not you or I or others that think this is the perfect time to confront Turkey, would face what our troops on the ground would. Based on that, I can’t support a confrontation at this time.
Okay, you’ve determined that Turkey is going to go balistic on the world. Personally I think China is. Perhaps we could come up with some other nations we could agree might/or will become problematic later on. Do you want to help develop that list then attack all of them now? I don’t. I wouldn’t mind altering some of our policies, but I don’t think it the proper time to take on everyone we happen to disagree with. And that includes Islamic nations. Turkey may be a nation we’ll have to confront some day. It is not one we have to confront today. And if it is going to moderate it’s desires in relation to the Kurdish region of Iraq, then once again, I’m not going to sign on to a plan to engage or incite Turkey now.
Look, I am not confident Islam is going to change. I’m fairly certain it isn’t going to. And I actually think this may be part of the ‘end days’ scenario. All I can say is, that we need to think of what we are going to do before it winds up dragging other parties in the region unnecessarily right now.
Well, I hold very little respect for Congress. Still, when a leading body of our government decides to declare a condemnation of a state that borders a war zone our men are involved in, I want it done in a professional manner. Deciding to do it right now was sophmoric and down right idiotic.
Despite whatever Turkey has done in the past, it is NOT involving itself in the war in Iraq in nearly the negative manner Syria and Iran have. In the reports that I have read, Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia have been the real problem nations. Right now we have set our sights on Syria and Iran. If that doesn’t moderate their actions, then I do support military resolutions to those problems. And if other problems don’t rectify themselves, then other decisions will have to be made.
Right now Turkey has moderated its desires. We all know it wanted to take action against the Kurds and hasn’t. Right now, that’s good enough.
When Iraq has calmed down and we’re out of the region, I don’t have a problem at all with discussing the events of 1915-1917 with Turkey. I do think it’s rather preposterous to demand things from fourth gerenations removed, but it should own up to its past. And if things are as bad as some have intimated here, it truly should.
I don’t actually consider it to be millifying or coddling Turkey to make the observation that it hasn’t been acting in a particularly bad manner during this war. Further, I think Turkey has shown restraint as it applies to Kurdish incursions onto it’s soil. And I don’t think it’s a bad thing to treat it with some respect for that restraint. I don’t seek to make the case that Turkey will not become a problem, or that it simply couldn’t. It may go that route in time. For the last fifty years or so, it hasn’t seemed to be the same state it was in the 1915 time frame. If has shown some willingness to work with us at times. At other times it hasn’t been quite as willing. Is this the time to lash out at it for something that happened 90 years ago? No.
Look, I appreciate the difference of opinion on this. In time we may have to declare the whole region in need of a attitudinal change, and mop up across the board. At such a time I’ll support the move. At the present time I don’t. We have engaged in a limited effort to stabalize the region, and I think we’re making some great progress in Iraq. As we do, Iraq will become it’s own protector and our job will be done.
Iran and Syria are in need of some correction now. In time, I think we’ll have to make a move. At that time, I’ll support it.
I apprecite your response.
Thanks for your comments here also. I appreciate your clarification.
As for being afraid, I don't think that's a word that applies, just because I'm not inclinded to assess judgement against one state until I understand more about what took place.
Well I don't think of it as kissing the ass of a state to declare that I need to know more before I can make a bonified assessment. Further, I don't think it's kissing ass to question why the Democratically controlled Congress found it worthy of fixing this, in effect addressing this issue at the current time. In the proper time and place, I think it's an issue that could be and should be addressed.
Concealing truths? You mean the truth of going out of our way to offend a nation state that borders a nation in which we are involved in war.
Joe, look, this is an issue that hasn't been settled in 90 years. Despite that, the Democrats who have hated our war effort since it's inception and have tried to sabotage it at every step of the way, have suddenly decided the issue of the Turks vs the Armenians is an issue that must be settled right now.
What bothers me as much as anything about this, is that good conservatives are more than willing to jump on this Democrat launched ship, and row with all their hearts. Wow! I guess the Democrats have really changed their stripes, and I better get with the program. Not hardly...
Yes, kudos to my Democratic controlled Congress who out of the blue suddenly became a supporter of our war effort and thinks it’s time to correct Turkey’s actions of 90 years ago right now.
The Democrats are desparate to find a way to turn this current war situation around. And now they’ve got some great allies.
Folks, this is the wrong problem being driven by the wrong people at the wrong time.
Is it a national holiday? Are all businesses nationwide closed? Is the U.S. flag stored away on St. Patrick’s Day while the Irish flag flies from all flag poles?
My premise is not off, but you are welcome to your own opinion.
Turkey was a help during the Gulf War. It elected not to be as helpful this time around. It has stated neutral in this conflict. It has shown restraint as it relates to the Kurds, in particular Kurdish incursions onto Turkish soil.
LOL, so now it’s insulting to mention what the local Armenians have tried to get our city council to do. Well, you called it.
Well good for you. I am not. And until I am, I will not be condemning Turkey one sidedly. I appreciate your observation.
So would I. It's none of our business, number one. What happened almost 100 years ago under a totally different regime is not something that the United States Congress should be concerned with.
Once we get started condemning modern countries for barbarisms committed in the past that weren't adequately confessed to, anything goes. Hardly a nation in the world is innocent of civilian slaughter, either by way of civil war or simple tyranny. Certainly, there was enough in the early days of our Republic to draw the world's attention, if one were to begin a tally.
Whatever their motives are, it's a really stupid move on the part of Congressional Democrats to bring this resolution forward. Let's hope cooler heads prevail.
It does occur to me that the Democrats have hated this war effort from day one. Oh some of them voted for it, but that’s before they voted against it. It pretty much obvious what is in the hearts of the Democrats when it comes to foreign wars intended to protect the future of the U.S.
I don’t think this just happened to role around now. If they could insite Turkey, it would potentially throw a great big monkey wrench into the war effort.
That’s what we’re dealing with IMO. This isn’t really just about calling Turkey to account. At least that’s the way I see it.
I pretty much agree with your comments BTW.
Good points and thoughtful.
I understand that the timing is most probably a democrat play to get the Turks to not allow what ever they do.
I just have an axe to grind with the Turks after them not allowing us to go in through Turkey with out a larger bribe.
Turkey claims they want to join the west through N.A.T.O. and the E.U.
Well it’s time they step up and quit acting like third world shake down artists.
Thanks for the history lesson, no ill will intended. It’s a good basis for me to start doing some outside reading on the subject. I appreciate your explanation.
I agree with your personal comments as well.
yes to 9 & 10
What was the breakdown of the commitee vote? How many Dems voted nay? How many Republicans voted yea?
I don’t see how labeling Turkish actions as Genocidal, would interfere with their plans to take on the Kurds in northern Iraq.
The answers to your questions concerning the dynamics of this vote in Congress interest me as well.
Thanks for the additional comments.
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