Posted on 10/09/2007 9:22:37 AM PDT by SirLinksalot
I agree with GingisK, but not for the reason he provides.
An engineer in most fields can earn a very good living here in the U.S., and has far more job security than people realize.
One of the biggest factors in outsourcing in the engineering profession in recent years is that most engineering graduates from U.S. schools aren't really engineers at all. Forty or fifty years ago, most of these folks would have been considered nothing more than glorified technicians -- which makes their skills easily transferable to foreign competitors.
Anyone who finishes a U.S. engineering program and can't even speak/write coherent sentences in English (and this description would probably apply to about 95% of recent engineering school graduates) shouldn't even be considered a college graduate, as far as I'm concerned.
Georgia has a scholarship program (HOPE) financed by our lottery that pays for college tuition, fees and books for students that had a 3.0 average in HS and maintain it in college.
I would have been far better off financially -- but miserable in other ways -- if I had gone to law school or worked on Wall Street.
I think it depends on your area of expertise. What have been telling our kids is, “figure out what you want to do, and then find the school that is the best in THAT field. If you don’t know what you want to do, then be careful about where you go, because you will be in debt up to your eyeballs when you get out.”
If you are an engineer, then there are clearly great engineering schools out there. If you are a general business major, the state Universities are as good as the privates.
From personal experience, the guys that always made the best money were the Harvard MBA’s and the high school grads who worked their way up from the bottom. The rest of the “also rans” were from the private 4 year schools. (Me included!)
Or, it could be that a kid goes to college, has God ripped from her life via drunken orgies and women’s studies. and thereafter will do anything for money.
I find that most Americans, regardless of degree, struggle with the language. I also find that most managers in American industry have no apparent qualifications for the jobs they hold.
My degree is in hard core computer science, which doesn't seem to be taught any longer. I learned very esoteric subjects, and the Computer Science curriculum was driven by the Mathematics and Physics Departments.
The "glorified technician" status followed the introduction of PCs and all of the web site construction. I am capable of writing compilers, multi-tasking executives, file systems, and database engines. The applications I write drive the guts of medical and laboratory instrumentation. I also design digital and analog electronic circuits for those instruments. Finally, I write the maintenance manuals, user’s manuals, and take the photographs that go into those manuals. The new kids aren’t aware that computers have registers, let alone know what they do.
Outsourcing occurs because the people in India can live like kings for $14,000 per year, not because we are inferior in any respect.
A good general rule is the harder the major the more money the graduate will make. Majors like chemistry, medicine, pharmacy, engineering etc are not easy. We do not have enough graduates in the hard sciences and medicine. We do not have enough because the courses are not easy. Supply and demand drives up the wages that are paid to these fields.
I don’t disagree with you concerning business degrees. I was citing examples from my field where most graduates receive multiple offers with very little effort. It is the liberal arts that award the worthless degrees I mentioned—it is a disservice to students to allow this to continue but if you speak out, the wrath of sniveling liberals and higher administration lackeys will seek to destroy you.
Personally, a person doesn't need a college degree to succeed in life.
However, a nuclear family unit composed of two college educated parents has a lot going for it and their children from a statistical basis.
YOu can get a lot on instate financial assistance in missouri, work part time and have zero debt upon graduation. The schools have their share of liberals but aren’t a cesspooll of political correctness (given you avoid socialist classes)
That really is incredible. I wish Kansas was like that. I would have gone to state school instead of private school in that case. The private school actually cost less due to its insane amount of scholarships.
I live across the street from a city police officer. He's two years younger than I. He works a fair amount of overtime but not too many hours per week more than I do. His house is nicer than mine with a pool. He has two vehicles, a late model SUV and an older truck. I went to college 8 years to do what I do. He joined the force right out of the Marines.
At one time it was a truism that a college degree was the biggest impediment to real wealth and success. My classmates came out semi-educated, eventually found their sinecure and settled into relatively uneventful and riskfree lives. That was exactly what I did not want. When graduation day came around, I found something more useful to do. I far more than qualified in hours and GPA but I looked down that road to a house in the suburbs with a red-tiled roof and said "No thanks." I decided that I would open my own doors and, if necessary, kick them in. The education that I had was no more or less valuable with the sheepskin. I've gnawed the black crust more than once but I've also tasted the sweet champagne of unbounded success. I'm not afraid of either but I'm still afraid of that house with a red-tiled roof.
There's an old Norse saying, "The bold are always lucky" or, if you prefer, "God helps those who help themselves." Success is not for the timid. Those who make things happen, with or without a college degree, are the ones who will find a path to success. Spelling is not a part of it.
LOL
Took 16 post before someone mentioned the major.
I didn’t read the study but does it distinguish between social science vs hard science.
“I still personally believe that a trade school would be better half the time.”
I have a friend that worked in the state education dept. She said the statistics show that a trade school or specialized associates degree is better than BA or BS. You can make more money and not have huge student loans to pay off.
I live in the Silicon Valley. People make a lot of money with their BS degrees.
With a trade degree or a associates degree you will never be able to work as an executive in one of the firms around here, and you will probably never get much in the way of stock options.
We have lots of our friends that are wealthy (millionaires) or close to it from their stock options.
These are guys with BS degrees in computer science or electrical engineering.
You can’t just look at salaries. You have to look at the benefits, and the benefits are great at a high tech company.
At many newspapers, reporters with a 4-year degree (and even 5 years experience on top of that) qualify for food stamps and have to work a second job. And people wonder why editors find it difficult to recruit competent staff.
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