Posted on 10/05/2007 10:11:12 AM PDT by Signalman
The lid of secrecy covering the Sept. 6 Israeli air strike into Syria remains tight but one new theory emerging amid the speculation is that the Israeli conducted an electronic warfare exercise in preparation for future strikes or an attack on Iran.
Authoritative reports from the Middle East stated that the Israel operation included extensive electronic warfare jamming by aircraft. The Israeli were testing the capabilities of Russian-made air defenses, including both radar and missiles located near Damascus and south of Homs near the Lebanese northern border.
The raid was unprecedented in the blanket of jamming and electronic disruption that it caused over wide areas of Syria enroute to the target point, a base near the Euphrates River.
The jamming also affected parts of Lebanon and Israel but Syria was able to get a small amount of sensor information from one of its electronic eavesdropping stations and spot the Israeli infiltration.
The raid was part of a U.S. “masint” operation according to this theory, referring to the military practice known as measurement and signature intelligence that is designed to learn the chrematistics and capabilities of all weapons in a region that emanate electronic signals. The masint signatures are needed for targeting and for defeating air defense threats.
The daring raid would gain valuable intelligence needed for future strikes by both Israel and the United States in the region.
The U.S. military is considering attacks on both Syria and Iran to counter infiltration by insurgents and terrorists into Iraq, including the Iranian paramilitaries. Israel could use the data for its battle against Hizbullah and possibly a future strike on Iranian nuclear facilities.
Journalist Jack Wheeler raised this idea in a recent report when he stated that the identity of the target, whether nuclear facilities, missiles or Hizbullah terrorists is “not the story.”
“The primary point of the attack was not to destroy that target,” Wheeler said. “It was to shut down Syria's Russian air defense system during the attack. Doing so made the attack an incredible success. Syria is shamed and silent. Iran is freaking out in panic. Defenseless enemies are fun.”
“We were not allowed to turn on our equipment within the USA.”
We didn’t have that restriction in West Germany, 1975-78.
I’m happy to hear that, serious.
I’m grateful we have that capability.
I don't thinks so. From what I've read, it really appears to have been a very serious raid for a specific and important reason. Any impact it might of had on Iran is of secondary concern. And I think the Israelis would have preferred to not show their hand at all before hitting Iran.
I believe that Russian suppliers have already upgraded many elements of the Syrian/Iranian air defenses to be less vulnerable to ECM. This wasn’t a technology that Russia was going to deliver without being forced. They have been forced.
I can live with that as long as they fear us.
The world doesn't work like that. If Iran has learned that Israel can render all digital systems obsolete, then Iran will switch to old analog systems that are commonly available throughout the world.
Radars worked long before the first computer ever talked to them. They'll still work today. Such old, analog radar air defense systems are commercially available.
So the argument falls on its face that Iran can't do anything about their digital systems being hacked...Iran can revert back to analog and simply stack up bodies filling more jobs...because Iran's been warned via Israel's attack on Syria.
Which is to say, the "test run" on Syria doesn't stand up when one considers Iran's options.
September 6 was *not* about deterrence or a message. Israel did not just give up the fact that it can blank radars.
Nope. Israel hit a very real target with high threat value to the lives or livlihoods of all Israelis.
Yeah, put me down for sinful barbarian infidel, too.
There’s a reason analog systems aren’t used anymore, they’re far to easy to counter.
I’ve come to the conclusion you have very little understanding of military tactics, psychological warfare, or the technology involved to really comprehend what happened.
Did Israel go in to attack a specific target, yes.
Was exposing their ability to completely render their detection system useless part of the plan, for a long term goal yes.
They essentially showed the region that they are capable of attacking them any time, any where, and with impunity.
The blowing up of the target created the desired physical damage, being able to do it without being detected or seen by the Russians most elaborate radar systems created a greater psychological damage to their military and their citizens, they now know that their country in impotent to stop their enemies from attacking at will.
That has a far more lasting and damaging result.
Remember, in war, psychological damage carries greater power than actual physical damage sometimes because it takes hope away from a people, and if they don’t have hope they lose their will to fight.
“I was thinking that the “stunner” would be physical evidence of NK nuclear material recovered from the site itself, not the (surprise!) of American systems vs Russian whatever.”
If their was some nuclear material, we will never hear about it for forty (or is it fifty?) years until this becomes declassified material. By then, the majority of the worlds major cities will have been vaporized and rebuilt. If their was nuclear material, Bush should state it publically and have a complete naval blockade of NK and a statement that if they don’t allow permanent inspections including a military presence, that we will use nuclear weapons. But that wouldn’t happen either because it makes Bush six-party failure come to light to the public.
Great. I am sure China has this technology by now as well.
So you think that Iran still has analog systems as backup?
I would speculate it was plutonium. Centrifuge technology to produce Uranium for a low yeild atomic weapon or dirty bomb can now be built by any scummy 3rd world craphole. If I were to speculate further, I doubt our enemies would have a fully functioning device shipped over countries in such a manner. Besides, the device part of it is no longer an obstacle to the our enemies. Pakistan’s nuclear scientist Ali-Kahn proliferated device material to all of our adversaries. Our adversaries have advanced missle technology as well, so...
>You don’t give up the element of surprise by revealing that you can take down an enemy system just for the heck of it.
True sea story to follow. Years ago on the Ticonderoga’s (CG-47’s) first cruise to the Med the Russians launched a simulated strike on her. The removed the electronic equipment from the noses of about 6 Backfire Bombers and loaded them with jammers and flew them in tight formation at Tico to find out what it was going to take. As I recall the answer was, “This isn’t going to be enough.”
Sometimes you DO have to give up the element of surprise if the only way to find out where you stand is to test yourself and your enemy. That way “miscalculations” don’t happen. I see the pwning of the Syrians to be a good thing,and by extension, the Iranians.
I got such a kick out of this.
“The Syrians and Iranians will change their systems based upon that attack.”
That will be a neat trick. The new SAM systems are mobile. The only thing they can do is move them around. It didn’t work in the Bekaa Valley the last time they got big time stomped. There are only a few plausible places to put them based on what you are actually trying to defend.
If the target ain’t moving the SAMS don’t have much scope either. There are no emergency fixes they are going to apply to these systems that are magically going to make them work better.
I frankly doubt the operators are going to do all that great a job either. Firecontrol systems are hard enough to operate in a benign environment against big cooperative targets. I might credit the Serbs with coming up with some nasty trick and being smart enough to use this equipment to nail somebody but not the Syrians.
Had not heard of that ... I think all we did was cause a lot of static on local radio and TV ... the frequency range that the ECM targets are fairly specific. The output of the ECM equipment is designed to analyze and then copy and then send out a more powerful return signal just a few milliseconds behind the weak signal that the SAM radar is expecting to see from a target. That very strong signal that sneaks in right behind the weak (true) signal can and does confuse the targeting software controlling a SAM. That is what the AWAC’s would be looking for ... new radar frequencies used to launch and guide SAMs.
The method used is unknown. There is speculation that Syrian radars were blanked, but how they were blanked and how well (and for how long) is not completely known.
Syrian radars tracked the Israeli F-15i drop tanks to Turkey, for example, and the Syrians claim to have fired at the Israeli jets.
So for all that we know the Mossad simply had the right phone numbers to call to pretend to be someone on Assad's staff saying "turn off your radar for 5 minutes at 0600 hours for a test."
The point being that we don't know...and since no one knows, that means that showing the Syrians that the Israelis can blank their radars was *not* the purpose of the mission.
And it certainly wasn't to alert Iran that Israel has a new anti-radar weapon and "here they come."
Yes.
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