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The Values Test [Dobson Will Back Third-Party if Giuliani is Nominated]
The New York Times ^ | October 4, 2007 | JAMES C. DOBSON

Posted on 10/04/2007 10:19:26 PM PDT by Soft Bigotry

After two hours of deliberation, we voted on a resolution that can be summarized as follows: If neither of the two major political parties nominates an individual who pledges himself or herself to the sanctity of human life, we will join others in voting for a minor-party candidate. Those agreeing with the proposition were invited to stand. The result was almost unanimous.

The other issue discussed at length concerned the advisability of creating a third party if Democrats and Republicans do indeed abandon the sanctity of human life and other traditional family values. Though there was some support for the proposal, no consensus emerged.

Speaking personally, and not for the organization I represent or the other leaders gathered in Salt Lake City, I firmly believe that the selection of a president should begin with a recommitment to traditional moral values and beliefs. Those include the sanctity of human life, the institution of marriage, and other inviolable pro-family principles. Only after that determination is made can the acceptability of a nominee be assessed.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 4thparty; biblebanger; blackmail; dobson; dumprudy; elections; fbifiles; giuliani; hillary; hillaryssecretpolice; hillarysstooge; hitlery; jamesdobson; pitchforkpat; rds; skeletonsincloset
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To: Soft Bigotry

From what I can tell, the majority of the squishy “fence sitter” middle has already gone to the democrats. The hardcore conservative values voters are disgusted because they’ve finally figured out that politics is (gasp!) a dirty game. And the rest of the Republicans are left squabbling over scraps.


121 posted on 10/05/2007 1:34:16 AM PDT by durasell (!)
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To: Man50D

Oh I completely agree with what you said. However, I do think we still have a better shot with a repub than a dem because the dem will have the extreme leftists on their side, and hounding them constantly and as we all know, most dem politicians can’t fight the fringe, move on crowd. Pelosi, Reid, etc come to mind.

So two socialists and it’s down to the one who will fight for this country, WOT, etc. and one who will sell it out. I’m not a guiliani supporter anymore like I was at first, heck I don’t really support any of them and I’m disappointed in our choices this election. I know Rudy is not a social conservative. Neither is Romney but I’d still vote for him if he were the repub nominee. I like all of Hunter’s ideals but I don’t see him winning the nom. I like a ton about Tancredo but again I don’t see him winning the nom.

ITA. The repubs today have more in common with the dems, socialists. And we do need another party but one that can win. I don’t think any 3rd party can win today and I’m not willing to trhow away my vote this election. Get another repub president, one who values the military since no dems do, or more imporantly a repub congress, and let’s keep working on a real conservative party. That’s how I see it.


122 posted on 10/05/2007 1:45:58 AM PDT by Twink
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To: Soft Bigotry
I myself have gone with "the lesser of two evils" over the last few Presidential elections.

Been there. Done that.

This time, 2008, will be different.

I have made up my mind.

I will be doing something else, if a conservative fails to get the GOP Nomination and the thing ends up being run by a RINO at the helm who will bring us socialism and a borderless North American continent, only a little more slowly than the Democrats will do.

It is like having to chose between catching a ride home with a pal who will be driving who has had 7 beers and a pal who has had 5.

What is really the difference at the end of the day??

123 posted on 10/05/2007 2:12:38 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Visit this thread 1-hour from now. In that time, an average of 416.6 more ILLEGALS will be in the US)
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To: Twink
The only possible benefit (for at least a little while) will be for the troops. For the moment that woman raises her hand and swears the oath, you are going to see a PROFOUND turnabout in the major US national media, and they will fall in line FIRMLY behind our US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Just watch. They will do it.

Of course, they will get screwed in other ways, by merit of a Clinton Administration.

124 posted on 10/05/2007 2:15:49 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Visit this thread 1-hour from now. In that time, an average of 416.6 more ILLEGALS will be in the US)
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To: Man50D

I understand the concept. I know History (and not the socialist/liberal history being shoved down students throats today).

And I disagree. I don’t think the problem with the GOP is based in socialism or even in the splitting of the party because of whiners who won’t support any candidate if that candidate doesn’t support their *issue* totally. Even though some do vote on one issue. Most voters today don’t know a darn thing about history: world history, US history, US Constitution, politics, government, etc. We don’t educate our kids, the next generation or generations, all they’re learning now is pop history, propaganda, media history which has no basis is facts. Take a look at the public (and that means ALL) school curriculum and it’s way different than what we were taught - most of these kids who support the Right to Choose have no idea about that SC case or about the people involved. Or how the woman recanted. Most of these kids are being educated, by our tax dollars, to lean toward a certain political agenda and there’s very little anyone can do about it. Sure we fight it but then we get sued, our twp/sch dis gets sued which costs us more money. We’re in this situation now with Garden State Equality suing our sch dis because we fought the That’s A FAmily video - a pro homo vid being taught to 8 yr olds/3rd graders. Cos homosexuality and transgenderism is normal and anyone who doesn’t believe that is odd. RME.

The GOP is this in current dilemna, imo, because it doesn’t fight back. It’s afraid. Maybe it’s part of the culture or fad today that if a lone nut case or two lone nut cases start shooting at you or your classmates, well then duck or hide rather than fighting back - because law abiding citizens can’t carry guns and all that. And honor means nothing and it’s ok to hide or run to save ourselves even when the chances point in the favor to the nut case and maybe storming him could save a few lives. But, we’re now taught to hide or don’t do anything to set a nut case off when they’re already set off. ??? Remember how scared certain senators became when we fought back about the Amnesty bill for illegals? We won that round. We wouldn’t have a fighting chance if those senators were dems.

The GOP is in this dilemna because we allowed this to happen and we can change it. There won’t be a change, drastic change, before 2008 election so I’m notwilling to throw away my vote. The change is happening now from what I’ve seen on this conservative board.

So if the election comes down to a repub nom who values our military and understands this war on terror and Islam to another who hates America, hates our military and doesn’t understand the War we’re fighting then yeah, I’ll vote for the former in a hearbeat. We won’t have any social issues to fight for or any freedoms if we lose this War.


125 posted on 10/05/2007 2:20:09 AM PDT by Twink
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To: AmericanInTokyo

Dear Dr. Dobson:

I realize that Mrs. Bill Clinton has your FBI file. I also realize that you probably have skeletons in your closet that you want kept there. Mrs. Bill Clinton’s only hope for election is to have a third party candidate siphon off enough votes to get her the electoral vote she needs to win. Ross Perot did this for her husband twice. Mrs Bill Clinton is not bright enough to think up a new plan; she will use the same one he used.

My question for you is simple. Is your personal life so important that you would sacrifice this country’s future in order to help Mrs Bill Clinton win? Are you that vain?

If the answer is “Yes”, may God have mercy on your soul, because history won’t.


126 posted on 10/05/2007 2:27:06 AM PDT by american_ranger (Never ever use DirecTV)
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To: american_ranger
George Bush senior and Bob Dole are probably the most to blame for their consecutive losses to Clinton.

One who's heart was hopelessly not in it, and the other one as exciting as a TV test pattern at 3:00 in the morning.

This can be avoided by the GOP doing "the right thing". There is still time.

127 posted on 10/05/2007 2:30:26 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Visit this thread 1-hour from now. In that time, an average of 416.6 more ILLEGALS will be in the US)
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To: Soft Bigotry

Good for Dobson... Finally a Christian leader getting some nads..


128 posted on 10/05/2007 2:33:28 AM PDT by LowOiL (Duncan Hunter .. a man you're not ashamed to support full heartedly..)
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To: XeniaSt

.........”Dobson needs to seek the face of the L-rd.
He needs to address issues and not people.”..........

HE MAY HAVE, HAVE YOU???????

THE ISSUES ARE IN THE PEOPLE.


129 posted on 10/05/2007 2:34:33 AM PDT by Lily4Jesus ( Jesus Saves)
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To: Timbo64

.....”Rudy can beat Clinton in 2008.”..........

NO THE CAN’T

DON’T WASTE YOUR TIME


130 posted on 10/05/2007 2:36:36 AM PDT by Lily4Jesus ( Jesus Saves)
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To: cherry
Christians are becoming the wimpiest bunch of whiners.....we don't get our way we would rather have the whole entire country ruined and infiltrated and controlled by Satanist then to either shut the heck up or support the most reasonable, conservative, rational, logical and respected person out there and that is not the Hitler.....

Romans 3:8 (King James Version)

And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

I think my damnation comes first... before thinking what the world thinks of me. But thanks for trying...

131 posted on 10/05/2007 2:37:00 AM PDT by LowOiL (Duncan Hunter .. a man you're not ashamed to support full heartedly..)
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To: Soft Bigotry; chaos_5; All
You all make very good points. I'm furious and frustrated with Rep. leadership that we are being put in this position at all. I have three sons and two nephews in the military. I have a very personal stake in who the CIC is. I also have a moral code that prevents me from casting a vote for anyone who supports abortion and the gay agenda. This presents me with an unacceptable quandary. Glenn Beck says go by the 80% rule: if you agree with a candidate at least 80% you can vote for him. But if the 20% means abortion on demand, gay marriage, and unchecked illegal immigration?

I feel certain, considering the political climate and the role of the media in politics, once we let go of family values they will disappear from politics for good. Any progress we've made in restricting abortion and holding off the gay agenda will be lost. Moral relativism will rule the land. Once the Republican Party believes they can force us to compromise they will write us off for good. We (Christians and pro-lifers) must stick together and vote for what we believe, not against Hillary. If we turn out in the primaries we can make sure Rudy doesn't get the nomination. It's not like we don't have any other choices!

132 posted on 10/05/2007 2:37:35 AM PDT by athelass (Proud Mom of a Sailor and two Marines! Frodo Lives!)
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To: Timbo64
Rudy can beat Clinton in 2008.

Maybe, but he will have to do it without my family's vote.

133 posted on 10/05/2007 2:47:57 AM PDT by LowOiL (Duncan Hunter .. a man you're not ashamed to support full heartedly..)
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To: athelass

SPOT ON!! And VERY well said, I might add!


134 posted on 10/05/2007 2:48:28 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Visit this thread 1-hour from now. In that time, an average of 416.6 more ILLEGALS will be in the US)
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To: american_ranger

Dear Mr. Ranger...

“Why do you help wicked people and love those who hate the LORD? The LORD’s anger is directed toward you because you have done this. 2 Chronicles 19:2


135 posted on 10/05/2007 2:54:06 AM PDT by LowOiL (Duncan Hunter .. a man you're not ashamed to support full heartedly..)
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To: Dustbunny; P-Marlowe
I think that Dobson must be a closet Democrat if he pulls a stunt like this.

BULL!

If the Republicans nominate a pro-abortion candidate then they must have a desire to elect Hillary. That is the only rational conclusion.

They will, in effect, be saying to us conservative Christians: "If you will only agree with us to murder our children, then we can win the presidency!"

I will not put my eternal soul in jeopardy with such a deal. No sane person who understands what we believe would ask me to do so.

136 posted on 10/05/2007 3:13:14 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: SoConPubbie
How you can call yourself a Christian and then proclaim you would be willing to vote for Rudy is beyond me. Any candidate that believes it is a woman’s right to choose to murder her unborn child, as Rudy does, is not fit to be a leader or a softball team, much less the leader of the US. As a Christian, your moral principles are supposed to be your first priority even to the death. Otherwise, you are definitely not living a Christ-like life. You might want to rethink either your proclamation of being a Christian, or your political position

That's right for the campaign and the primary; but if the final nominees are Rudy and Hillary, you would be a self-righteous fool to try to stand on principle when the entire election belongs to "Caesar" anyway. We got Bill Clinton because of Ross Perot. Do you really want to bring an end to the United States Constitution if you can't have perfection in a candidate? Only God is perfect.

137 posted on 10/05/2007 3:17:55 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: SoConPubbie
I don’t care what Dobson has to say if he can’t even have the decency to sit down and talk to the man before he starts making statements like this. It lacks a certain Christ-like quality.

Amen to that. Dobson is politically naive. A sheep to the slaughter.

138 posted on 10/05/2007 3:19:28 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: Graybeard58; cherry; Brimack34; HockeyPop; Soft Bigotry; SoConPubbie; frankiep; babygene; ...
I will never vote for Rudy. Flame away.

You are exactly correct, GB58. I, too, will NEVER vote for Rudy for any reason. Ever.

Those who agree with killing their own children just to win the presidency are traitors to their faith in Jesus Christ. They should look to their souls for they are willing to make a pact with the devil.

I doubt the legitimacy of their faith in the true Jesus who loved little children and became angry with His disciples when they wouldn't let children come to sit with Him.

Jesus said it would be better for a person to be drowned in the sea than that he injure one of these little ones.

139 posted on 10/05/2007 3:24:47 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: Twink
"but he’s better"

Maybe, maybe not.

I am reminded of the stranglehold rats have on "minorities" and secular Jews. It always amazes me that those groups can vote for a party that does them such a disservice and holds them in such low regard.

I guess conservatives are now in the same boat and we can answer ourselves how a party can keep a group "on the plantation".

I've never appreciated a man peeing on my boot and telling me it's raining. A great many republicans have already told me that I'm a sexist and a racist, I guess I should just consider it rain and be a good slave and mash that old "R" button even thought I know it's for a party that doesn't share my values and appears to think that I'm some sort of low life. My party, right or wrong. I guess Zell Miller is the only person allowed to have standards.

Let's hope it doesn't come to this but if the republican party wants to spend the next 40 years in the wilderness so be it, I didn't leave the party, the party left me.

140 posted on 10/05/2007 3:26:49 AM PDT by Proud_texan (Just my opinion, no relationship to reality is expressed or implied.)
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