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She chose it all on the day she died (Euthanasia)
The Oregonian ^ | 9/30/07 | Dan Colburn

Posted on 09/30/2007 10:01:27 AM PDT by wagglebee

Lovelle Svart woke up Friday knowing it was the day she would die.

There was much to do. Her family and closest friends would be gathering at 11 a.m. in her mother's apartment in the Southwest Portland assisted-living center where they both lived.

She directed trips to the grocery store and even called AAA to jump-start the dead battery of her 2006 Scion. She double-checked delivery of food platters from Fred Meyer: turkey sandwiches, strawberries and grapes, pretzels, almonds and sparkling water. There would be pink roses on the dining table and a boombox in the corner to play music, including the polka tunes she loved.

Lovelle made one last trip to "the bridge," a wooden footbridge in a nearby park where she had found quiet sanctuary the past few weeks as painful cancerous tumors spread from her lungs through her chest and her throat.

The consummate planner, she had choreographed the day. She wanted to leave time -- five or so hours -- for storytelling, polka dancing and private goodbyes. And at 4 p.m., she intended to drink a fatal dose of medication, allowed by Oregon law, that would end her life.

A smoker since age 19, Lovelle found out five years ago that she had inoperable lung cancer. Radiation and chemotherapy slowed the cancer's spread but could not stop it.

In June, Lovelle's doctor warned her that she was likely to die within six months, making her eligible for Oregon's unique, 10-year-old Death With Dignity Act.

What some call doctor-assisted suicide and others call physician aid-in-dying or hastened death is one of the most passionately argued issues in U.S. medicine and politics. Proponents frame the question in terms of personal choice, death with dignity and freedom from pain. Opponents say assisted suicide violates the Hippocratic tradition of "First, do no harm" and undermines the doctor-patient relationship by turning physicians from healers into accomplices of death.

Far more people ask for a lethal prescription than actually use the drug. Either their symptoms overwhelm them before they make a final decision, or they find other ways to control those symptoms, including pain.

Lovelle was determined to keep control, if possible, of when and how she died.

On July 1, she filled out and signed a one-page form titled, "REQUEST FOR MEDICATION TO END MY LIFE IN A HUMANE AND DIGNIFIED MANNER." By signing, she agreed that she knew the expected result -- death -- and was aware of alternatives, such as hospice care.

By law, she also had to make two oral requests at least 15 days apart. Her doctor wrote the prescription for a lethal dose of barbiturate in late July, and she had it filled Aug. 7. She kept the orange bottle of clear liquid in a plastic grocery bag on a stack of towels in her bedroom closet -- "hidden in plain sight," as she put it.

She was still unsure whether she would take the drug, but said she took comfort in knowing it was there.

Once she knew she had less than six months to live, Lovelle also decided to try to start a more open public discussion of dying. During the past three months, mostly through a series of online video diaries for The Oregonian, she shared publicly the experience of facing death.

Lovelle, 62, has "touched a chord" by chronicling her "deeply intimate struggle with mortality," said Dr. Susan Tolle, director of the Center for Ethics in Health Care at Oregon Health & Science University.

"People are following closely," Tolle said Friday. "They want to know what happens to her.

"Lovelle has become their friend."

Friday morning, Lovelle stuck a yellow note on the door of her mother's apartment: "Please Do NOT Disturb. Unless Urgent. Thank you."

She wore a blue sweat suit over a "Cancer Fighter" T-shirt.

Lovelle delighted in Friday's blustery weather and a forecast that included possible thunder and lightning about the time she planned to die. "Oh, the woo-woo crowd will have a blast with that," she said.

After AAA jump-started her car, she left the engine running to recharge the battery, returned to her apartment and set the kitchen timer for 10 minutes to remind her.

When a friend later expressed shock that Lovelle had spent part of the last morning of her life dealing with a dead car battery, Lovelle explained:

"The car goes to my sister. I didn't want it to be dead."

In the living room, her family and friends sat and told stories and jokes, sometimes with political references. Sometimes they laughed a bit too loudly, out of nervousness at the occasion. Twice, Lovelle came out of the bedroom where she was having private meetings to say, "No politics!"

A bit later, Lovelle and George Eighmey, head of Compassion & Choices of Oregon, an advocacy group that works with most of the Oregonians who end their lives under the Death With Dignity Act, danced a brief but rousing polka.

By midafternoon, the studiously punctual Lovelle was falling behind her schedule. No one complained.

But a little before 4 p.m., she decided it was time to make her final preparations. First, she had to take the two pre-medication pills -- to calm her stomach and control vomiting. They were hard to swallow, given the tumors in her neck, but she got them down with water.

"It" would be in about an hour, she told her family. Time now to sit alone with her mom, Vi Svart, in her bedroom for the last time. The rest of the group sat in the living room, debating whether they wanted -- and whether Lovelle wanted them -- to be in the room with her at the end.

Lovelle's three siblings and her mother, despite deep misgivings about her decision to end her life, supported Lovelle in her choice.

"I feel so at peace," she said. "I've had such a good time. . . . And today has been so wonderful.

"I'm really ready to go. I'm ready."

About 4:30, Lovelle announced she wanted "a hugging line" -- one last hug for everybody. "You'll be first and last," she said, turning to her mom.

Lovelle stood in the center of the living room and embraced them one by one -- long hugs with tears and laughter.

Then one last cigarette break on her favorite sitting stone next to the parking lot. Afterward, Lovelle took the elevator up to the third-floor apartment and hung up her coat and hat.

"OK," she said to no one in particular. "I'm going to get into bed now."

In many ways, Lovelle fits the pattern of Oregonians who choose to end their lives under the Death With Dignity Act.

Like most, she had cancer. She was in her 60s. Well educated and insured. Not formally religious. White. Enrolled in hospice care.

And fiercely independent.

"I could be very gregarious -- and very private," she said. "Very much the partygoer -- and very much want to stay home and read."

She was chosen Miss Cafeteria at Crater Lake Lodge in the summer of 1963, and she has the lemon-yellow rayon dress to prove it. She left it hanging in a plastic dry-cleaning bag on her bathroom door.

She loved surfboarding and polka-dancing and both her first and last names, "because they are different, and I like things that are different."

And she liked, as she was the first to admit, being in control.

Lovelle decided it was more important to die by taking the lethal drug while she had a degree of control over her body than to wait for nature to take its course. But how to decide when?

Her symptoms -- shortness of breath, stomach distress, weakness and pain -- were intensifying. If she waited too long, she would be unable to drink and swallow the lethal drug on her cupboard shelf.

Lovelle sought a shifty window between life-worth-living and incapacity, "this tiny bit of freedom" when, for her last act, she could swallow a fatal potion in the company of family and friends. "That's when I want to go."

Last Sunday, after a painful, restless night, Lovelle decided it was almost time.

Swallowing was more painful than ever, like choking on broken glass or razor blades, she said. She had barely eaten in two weeks. She started taking morphine to dull her pain.

She told family and friends to come Friday.

Lovelle sat on the foot of the bed, while 10 others gathered around. A photograph of Lovelle as a curly-haired 5-year-old stood on one bedside table; on the other were a glass tumbler containing the liquid medication, which looked like water, along with a container of morphine and Lovelle's ever-present mug of Gatorade. On the wall above the head of the bed were five more family photographs.

With some help, Lovelle yanked off her shoes and socks and slipped partway under the covers.

Eighmey stood by her bedside. He has attended more than three dozen deaths of this kind.

"Is this what you really want?"

"Actually, I'd like to go on partying," Lovelle replied, laughing before turning serious. "But yes."

"If you do take it, you will die."

"Yes."

Ever the detail person, she reminded him that she wanted her glasses and watch removed, "after I fall asleep."

Eighmey warned her that the clear liquid would taste bitter. She needn't gulp it. She would have about a minute and a half to get it down.

Lovelle dipped her right pinky into the glass and tasted.

"Yuck," she said. "That's why I need the Gatorade."

Holding the glass, Eighmey asked her again to affirm that this was her wish.

Yes, she replied.

Someone asked, "Can we have another hugging line?"

One by one, they came to head of the bed for hugs and teary whispers.

"Sweet dreams."

"It's all right."

"I know."

"Thank you for being my big sister."

"All the church is praying for you."

Lovelle was sitting up in bed, three pillows propping her up.

She held the glass tumbler in her right hand, raised it to her lips and drank. It was 8 minutes after 5.

"Most godawful stuff I ever tasted in my life," she said, making a face before taking a sip of Gatorade and plain water.

She laid back and scrunched down under the covers, glasses still on to see her loved ones.

She reached for her mother, who leaned closer, then laid down next to Lovelle, stroking her hand.

"Are you OK, honey?"

"I'm fine, Mom."

"You're not sick?"

"No. I'm peaceful. It stopped raining, the sun's out. And I've had a wonderful day.

Her eyes closed.

"It's starting to hit me now."

For a while, no one moved or spoke, as Lovelle drifted into a coma. Then Lovelle's mom asked for a prayer. Others spoke up with prayers and memories, which prompted other stories. Lovelle's brother Larry read part of William Wordsworth's "Intimations of Immortality."

Lovelle lay motionless but for the gentle rise and fall of her chest. Her heart slowed but didn't stop.

About an hour into the vigil, Lovelle's mom lit three white candles in cut-glass candlesticks in the living room. "She's still with us," she said.

Hours passed. Given what Lovelle's body had been through -- not only lung cancer but also open-heart surgery in 2004, Eighmey was surprised how long she was lingering. But not her family.

"I hate to say this," one said with a smile, "but this is just like her."

"A little spitfire," agreed another.

"Above average -- that's Lovelle."

"One last reminder that she's the one in control."

Jane O'Dell, a volunteer for Compassion & Choices, sat at Lovelle's bedside all evening, holding her right hand, monitoring her breathing and regularly checking the pulse in her wrist and neck.

About 10:30 p.m., more than five hours after she had taken the drug, O'Dell signaled that Lovelle's breathing had become shallower and more labored. Her pulse dropped, her skin turned pallid and her fingernails bluish. It was more than a minute between breaths.

Family and friends resumed their bedside vigil, and silence again fell over the dark room. Lovelle's chest stopped moving.

Eighmey leaned over at 10:42 p.m. and put his ear to her chest to listen for a heartbeat. He stepped back, shaking his head and spoke in a quiet voice.

"She's gone."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: 2horrible4words; assistedsuicide; bioethics; compassionandchoices; compassionindying; cultureofdeath; dancolburn; dutytodie; euthanasia; georgeeighmey; ghastly; ghoulish; hell; hellisreal; janeodell; kevorkian; lifehate; medicide; moralabsolutes; oregon; paincontrol; prolife; socializedmedicine; suicide; susantolle
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To: Riverman94610
So what was this woman’s alternative?To die a slow painful death,unable to eat or drink and be numbed out of any feeling from morphine doses?

After spending the longest seven days of my life as 24-hour nurse to my dying father, I can't disagree with this woman's choice.

There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING, sadder and more depressing than to watch someone go from an independent person still regularly watching his great-grandsons playing baseball to a complete invalid (unable to walk, stand and make himself understood let alone control bodily functions) in a matter of a month. I feel like I, personally, aged about a year in that week, and the vision of seeing him like that will probably haunt me for the rest of my life.

Would he have opted for assisted suicide? I don't know, but I wouldn't have put it past him. I know I never would have disagreed with him and, in retrospect, may have even been happy to work with him on such a task.

241 posted on 10/01/2007 3:50:28 PM PDT by ssaftler (Which Al is more deadly: Al Qaeda or Al Gore?)
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To: wagglebee

The good news is, the death watch if finally over.

The bad news is that the Oregonian will likely get an other Pulitzer Prize for thier reporting on this.

The worse news is that we’ll read about it all for the rest of our natural lives...


242 posted on 10/01/2007 5:46:12 PM PDT by Bean Counter (Stout Hearts...)
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To: wagglebee

Nice try.


243 posted on 10/01/2007 8:19:13 PM PDT by verity (Muhammed and Harry Reid are Dirt Bags)
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To: Twink

I’m quite familiar with the Bible. I see no prohibition in it against suicide. Do you have something or not?


244 posted on 10/01/2007 8:40:22 PM PDT by BuckeyeForever
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To: tbw2

That is a brilliant perception, maybe you’re right.


245 posted on 10/01/2007 9:20:59 PM PDT by baa39
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To: ga medic
By the way, not all death is horrible.

I was thinking, what about a warrior who gives his life for his nation or for an ideal like freedom? Some are seen as heroes for putting something above living more of life for themselves.

246 posted on 10/01/2007 10:33:17 PM PDT by ran20
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To: BuckeyeForever; All

Suit yourself, “BuckeyeFOREVER”.

I happen to believe it. Literally. From Chapter 16:

= = =
After walking for a short distance, we stopped in front of another cell. I heard a man’s voice calling out, “Who is there? Who is there?” I wondered why he called out.

Jesus said, “He is blind.”

I heard a sound and looked about. Ahead of us was a large demon with huge wings which appeared to be broken. He looked right past us. I stood close to Jesus.

Together, we turned to look at the man who had spoken. He also was in a cell, and his back was to us-he was a skeleton form with fire and the smell of death on him. He was flailing the air and crying out, “Help me. Help, someone!”

Tenderly, Jesus said, “Man, peace, be still.”

The man turned and said, “Lord, I knew You would come for me. I repent now. Please let me out. I know I was a horrible person and used my handicap for selfish gain. I know I was a sorcerer and deceived many for Satan. But Lord, I repent now. Please let me out. Day and night I am tormented in these flames, there is no water. I am so thirsty.” He cried, “won’t You give me a drink of water?”

The man was still calling after Jesus as we walked away. I looked down in sadness.

Jesus said, “All sorcerers and workers of evil will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

We came to another cell in which was another man. He said, “Lord, I knew You would come and release me. I have repented for a long time.” This man also was a skeleton, full of flames and worms.

“O man, you are still full of lies and sin. You know you were a disciple of Satan, a liar who deceived many. The truth was never in your mouth, and death was always your reward. You heard My words often and made fun of My salvation and My Holy Spirit. You lied all your life and would not listen to Me. You are of your father the devil. All liars will have their part in the lake of fire. You have blasphemed the Holy Ghost.”

The man began to curse and say many evil things against the Lord. We went on. This soul was forever lost in hell.

Jesus said, “Whoever will may come to Me, and he that loses his life for My sake shall find life, and that more abundantly. But sinners must repent while still alive on earth. It is too late to repent when they arrive here. Many sinners want to serve God and Satan, or they believe that they have unlimited time to accept the grace God offers. The truly wise will choose this day whom they will serve. “

Soon we came to the next cell. A desperate cry of sorrow came from within. We looked and saw a skeleton of a man huddled on a floor. His bones were black from burning, and his soul was a dirty- ~ gray mist inside. I noticed that parts of his body were missing. Smoke and flames came up around him. Worms crawled inside of him.

Jesus said, “This man’s sins were many. He was a murderer and had hate in his heart. He would not repent or even believe that I would forgive him. If he had only come to Me!”

“You mean, Lord,” I asked, “he thought that You would not forgive him of murder and hatred?”

“Yes,” said Jesus. “If only he had believed and come to Me, I would have forgiven him all his sins, great and small. Instead, he continued to sin and died in them. That is why he is where he is today. He was given many opportunities to serve Me and to believe the gospel, but he refused. Now it is too late.”

The next cell we came to was filled with a terrible odor. I could hear the cries of the dead and moans of regret everywhere. I felt so sad that I was almost sick. I made up my mind that I would do all I could to tell the world about this place.

A woman’s voice said, “Help me.” I stared into a real pair of eyes, not the burned-out sockets which were the marks of burning. I was so sad I shivered, and I felt such pity and sorrow for this soul. I wanted so badly to pull her out of the cell and run away with her. “It’s so painful,” she said.

“Lord, I will do what is right now. I once knew You, and You were my Savior.” Her hands clenched the bars of the cell. “Why won’t you be my Savior now?” Big pieces of burning flesh fell from her, and only bones clenched the bars.

“You even healed me of cancer,” she said. “You told me to go and sin no more lest a worse thing come upon me. I tried, Lord; You know I tried. I even tried to witness for You. But, Lord, I soon learned that those who preach Your Word are not popular. I wanted people to like me. I slowly went back into the world and the lust of the flesh devoured me. Nightclubs and strong drink became more important than You. I lost touch with my Christian friends and soon found myself seven times worse than I had been before.

“And though I became lovers of both men and women, I never intended to be lost. I did not know that I was possessed by Satan. I still felt Your call upon my heart to repent and be saved, but I would not. I kept thinking I still had time. Tomorrow I will turn back to Jesus, and He will forgive me and deliver me. But I waited too long, and now it is too late,” she cried.

Her sad eyes burst into flames and disappeared. I screamed and fell against Jesus. O Lord, I thought, how easily could that have been me or one of my loved ones! Please, sinner, wake up before it is too late.

We walked on to another cell. In it another man with a skeleton form and a dirty-gray soul inside. Cries of such utter pain and regret came from this man that I knew I could never forget them.

Jesus said, “My child, some who read this book will compare it to a fiction story or a movie they have seen. They will say this is not true. But you know these things are true. You know that hell is real, for I have brought you here many times by My Spirit. I have revealed the truth to you so that you can witness to it.”

Lost person, if you will not repent and be baptized and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, this will surely be your end.

“This man is here,” said the Lord, “because of his rebellion. The sin of rebellion is like the sin of witchcraft. In fact, all those who know My Word and My ways and have heard the gospel but still will not repent are in rebellion against Me. Many are in hell today because of this sin.”

The man spoke to Jesus and said, “I once thought about making You Lord of my life, but I did not want to walk Your straight and narrow way. I wanted the broad way. It was so much easier to serve sin. I did not want to have to be righteous. I loved my sinful way. I desired to drink strong drink and do the things of this world more than obey Your commands. But I wish now I had listened to those You sent to me. Instead, I did evil and would not repent. “

Great sobs shook his body as he cried out in regret.

“For years I have been tormented in this place. I know what I am, and I know I will never get out. I am tormented day and night in these flames and these worms. I cry, but no one comes to help. No one cares for my soul here-no one cares for my soul.”

He fell into a small heap on the floor and continued to cry.

We walked on to another cell. A woman sat picking the worms off her bones. She began to cry I when she saw Jesus. “Help me, Lord,” she said, “I’ll be good. Please let me out.” She also arose and clenched the bars of the cell. I felt such great pity for her. As she cried, sobs shook her body.

She said, “Lord, when I was on earth, I worshiped the Hindu gods and many idols. I would not believe the gospel the missionaries preached to me, although I heard it many times. One day I died. I cried for my gods to save me from hell, but they could not. Now, Lord, I’d like to repent.”

“It’s too late,” said Jesus.

Flames covered her form as we walked on; her cries still fill my soul even now. Satan had deceived her.

= = =
http://spiritlessons.com/Mary_K_Baxter_A_Divine_Revelation_of_Hell.htm


247 posted on 10/02/2007 2:00:56 AM PDT by Joya
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To: Max in Utah

Thanks for the bump, Max.

With love,
Joya

From Mary K. Baxter’s book, Chapter 17:

In the vision I saw terrible things happening on the earth. Evil was magnified and sin abounded. The forces of evil caused men to steal, to lie, to cheat, to hurt one another, to speak evil and to succumb to the lusts of the flesh. All kinds of evil were released upon the earth.

I said, “Jesus, this is awful to behold.”

Jesus said, “My child, in My name, evil has to flee. Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.”

As the evil spirits spewed their vileness and slander upon the earth, I saw the people of God begin to pray. They prayed in the name of Jesus and in faith. As they prayed, the Word of God came against the evil spirits, which began to lose ground. As the saints prayed, the forces of evil lost their hold. Evil spells were broken. Those who had been weakened by the forces of hell were strengthened.

When they prayed as in one voice, the angels of heaven entered the fray. I saw the holy angels fighting with the evil princes and powers of the air, and God’s angels were destroying the powers of evil.

I looked, and behold there were rows upon rows of angel forces, with about 600 in each row. As the people believed God, the angels advanced. God gave I the orders, and mighty was His power. He gave great strength to His people and to the angels to destroy the works of Satan. God was fighting against evil in the sky. When the people prayed and believed God, the evil forces were destroyed. But when there was disbelief, the evil powers began to overcome.

“My people must believe, and they must agree with each other and with Me,” said the Lord, “if all things are to be put under the Father’s feet.” Heaven and earth must agree if we are to destroy our enemies.

As the praises of God’s people began to rise from the earth, the evil forces retreated. I saw saints of God praying with all their hearts against the wiles of the devil. As they did, evil spells and curses were broken, and the saints gained the victory.

This is what happened. As the angels of the Lord fought with the demons and the forces of hell, saints were delivered through prayer. As the people were delivered, many praises rang out to God, and the praises brought more victories. Only when the results of prayer were not seen at once did the praises cease and evil began to win the battle.

I heard an angel with a loud voice say, “O Lord, the faith of Your people is weak. They must have faith if You are to deliver them from the hordes of Satan. Lord, have mercy on the heirs of salvation.”

The voice of the Almighty responded, “Without faith it is impossible to please God. But the Lord is faithful, and He will establish you.”

Again in the vision I saw God pour out His Spirit on all flesh, and the people believed that God would do all they asked because they were His and I sincerely loved Him. They had faith in God and believed His Word, and God delivered them. And the Word of God grew in the land.

The Lord said, “All things are possible to them that believe. I watch over My Word to perform it. You do your part, and you can know that I will do Mine. If my people will stand for truth and fight the good fight, wonderful things will happen as on the Day of Pentecost. Call upon Me and I will hear. I will be your God and you will be My people. I will establish you in righteousness, truth and sincerity.”

In the vision, I saw Christians being born as little babies. I saw the angels standing over them to protect them from harm. I saw the Lord of Hosts fighting their battles and gaining the victory for them. Then I saw the babes grow up and harvest the fields of the Lord of Glory. They were doing the work of the Lord with a glad heart-loving God, trusting God and serving God. I saw the angels and God’s Word combine to destroy evil from the face of the earth. I saw peace on earth as everything was eventually put under the feet of God.


248 posted on 10/02/2007 2:14:47 AM PDT by Joya
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To: Salvation

Thanks for the links.

God bless you, Salvation.

Joya


249 posted on 10/02/2007 2:31:49 AM PDT by Joya
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To: sophiesmomma

“I guess they didn’t want anyone seeing the grief that this so-called choice brought the poor family members!”

Don’t you think that the grief was caused by the fact that the woman was going to die, not because she chose to do it this way? Whether you agree with her choice or not, she didn’t choose to die, that choice was made for her. What she chose is to die from taking pills rather than wasting away and suffering through her last few weeks.

I hope that I have strength and courage to face whatever God has in his plans for me, even if it involves suffering. I don’t know, because I haven’t been faced with the situation. I do not understand why you are portraying this woman as such an awful person.


250 posted on 10/02/2007 6:21:24 AM PDT by ga medic
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To: ga medic
I wasn’t portraying her as awful at all! Actually, I was questioning the motives of the newspaper and the volunteers who help these people die. Whether you agree with what she did or not, there is definitely a whole lot of left wing bias to this article.
No, I feel really bad for this poor lady! I watched her video diaries and I think she came across as being depressed and hopeless. I do get the feeling that she might have been taken advantage of.
I also feel bad for her mother and siblings who didn’t want her doing this, but had to stand by and watch it anyway.
My poor sweet Uncle Charles just passed away from the same kind of cancer this lady had. And he actually passed away pretty much the same as this lady did. He just started sleeping more and more and never woke up. Yes, he had pain, but he actually had alot of good days right up til he went into the coma.
251 posted on 10/02/2007 7:41:58 AM PDT by sophiesmomma
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To: ktscarlett66
Bravo! Truly!

But in the end, it is really up to the individual doing the dying to handle it.

Some are believers and hang on until nature takes it's course. Of course, the medical services just about bankrupt the survivors in some cases, but that's life.

Others take matters into their own hands for reasons they alone believe in.

Either way, it's up to the individual involved.

Personally, I hope I have the courage of my convictions and if I reach the point this lady did, I would follow gladly in her footsteps.

Once again, I say, "Way to go, ma'am!"

252 posted on 10/02/2007 2:10:06 PM PDT by Logic n' Reason (Don't piss down my back and tell me it's rainin')
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To: Joya

Thanks for posting that, Joya. That made my day. I haven’t laughed so hard in weeks.

Let’s recap the tour Jesus gave this clown: We learn of a guy, who despite having no body in hell (or did he get a new, blind body in hell?), is “blind.” Then there is a large demon with huge wings which appeared to be broken. Next up is some talking “skeleton form with fire,” who, not surprisingly, smells pretty nasty. I thought the part where he was flailing the air and crying out, “Help me. Help, someone!” was particularly stupid. “I know I was a sorcerer and deceived many for Satan,” he said. That’s funny stuff.

Then, another guy who is only a skeleton, full of flames and worms. Then it is explained to us that the game is this: you have to repent while you are alive. Repenting after you go to hell doesn’t count. Give me a break.

Then, another guy whose bones were black from burning, and his soul was a dirty-gray mist inside. I noticed that parts of his body were missing. Smoke and flames came up around him. Worms crawled inside of him. Of course. You won’t find any white, shiny souls in hell— just the dingy kind. It goes on. Mostly, stinky people who smell like death warmed over. One asks: “Why won’t you be my Savior now?” Big pieces of burning flesh fell from her, and only bones clenched the bars. There is more, but it just gets sillier and sillier.
I can’t take it anymore. My side hurts from reading this nonsense. And you really believe this?


253 posted on 10/02/2007 10:48:10 PM PDT by BuckeyeForever
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To: disrgr
holy jeezum, a voice of reason.

if i was going through unending pain and had little time to live, i would think long and hard about going out on my own terms.

i don't think god, as much as he/she/it exists, would ever want his creation to suffer. even if the suffering was due to their own actions.

254 posted on 10/02/2007 11:04:25 PM PDT by thefactor
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To: wagglebee
that was supposed to be a beautiful death?....it sounded just horrid too me.....

imagine having to have all these people around you so you can make your grand exit...arrogant and egotistical.....

I am sorry but this story just makes me mad.....

she killed her body with her stinking cigarettes and at age 62 she is riddled with cancer.....like that is one big surprise....

but now after not following medical or health advice her entire life she expects the medical profession to step in and provide her an easy way out....

5 yrs ago I would bet they told her to STOP smoking....and she refused.....that there is why she is dead......she continued with her smoking.

255 posted on 10/02/2007 11:16:51 PM PDT by cherry
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To: wagglebee
that was supposed to be a beautiful death?....it sounded just horrid too me.....

imagine having to have all these people around you so you can make your grand exit...arrogant and egotistical.....

I am sorry but this story just makes me mad.....

she killed her body with her stinking cigarettes and at age 62 she is riddled with cancer.....like that is one big surprise....

but now after not following medical or health advice her entire life she expects the medical profession to step in and provide her an easy way out....

5 yrs ago I would bet they told her to STOP smoking....and she refused.....that there is why she is dead......she continued with her smoking.

if she wanted to die she could have taken all her precious pills....all legal.....such as her pain pills....and gone to her death without all the fanfare....

256 posted on 10/02/2007 11:18:16 PM PDT by cherry
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To: CGTRWK

she could have taken her oxycontin all at once and died quietly....why the party?...to make her seem noble?...for smoking all her life and continuing to smoke after her cancer and heart problems, she seemed like an idiot to me....


257 posted on 10/02/2007 11:21:30 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Coldwater Creek
sorry about your loss.....I lost both parents last year, one lingered for a few months after being diagnosed with untreatable cancer, and I think she suffered, emotionally and physically.....

often she would pray to God WHY it was taking so long....

I don't begrudge anyone from taking too many pills, but in this article, to make a party of it, its just too much....

258 posted on 10/02/2007 11:26:11 PM PDT by cherry
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To: MHGinTN

An eloquent post. What is your solution to the synoptic problem?


259 posted on 10/03/2007 4:03:53 AM PDT by disrgr
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To: MHGinTN
You cannot compel love, eh

You are very right about that. And yes, I am lucky to live with such a woman--she tells me so every day! :^)

260 posted on 10/03/2007 4:07:17 AM PDT by disrgr
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