Posted on 09/21/2007 11:30:49 AM PDT by brent1a
FORT BRAGG, N.C., Sept. 17 — From his position about 100 yards away, Master Sgt. Troy Anderson had a clear shot at the Afghan man standing outside a residential compound in a village near the Pakistan border last October. When Capt. Dave Staffel, the Special Forces officer in charge, gave the order to shoot, Sergeant Anderson fired a bullet into the man’s head, killing him.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Why the f$&*@$#% should the Green Berets have anything to worry about anyway? Our very best troops need to be worrying about their careers every time they pull the trigger in combat? This is how we will win the WOT???? ONLY in this very, very stupid, totally dumbed down generation of Americans would any American give a rat's tail about some mistake a Green Beret may or may not have made, ten thousand miles away in war-torn Al Stinkistan.
Let's address the topic from the other direction. Suppose for the sake of argument that this was not a good shoot -- that it really was "an unauthorized, illegal killing."
Not saying that it was, but just suppose.
What should happen in that case?
Actually......with shooters, it’s”
Shoot & Silently Slip away....
Shooters are NOT required to shoot only armed men, warn them a shot is coming, bury them or shut up about who and where he shot the bastard....
Your resume cannot erase what you said.
Let me know when the great and powerful government that protects us is going (for instance) to go ahead and disband the 20+ known private muslim "retreats" that are in the USA. Oh wait, we can't do anything to infringe on their legal rights........Now let me know when YOU are going to do something about those camps and then let me know how you're going to do it and get away with it. Oh wait, you're not going to do anything about them because if you did you would be put in prison for protecting you family.
Fascinating. So, according to some people, America is declining because the government does not take over privately-owned Islamic retreats. Were the government to seize tehse properties, there would self-styled "Constitutionalists" like Ron Paul saying that America is declining because the fascist government is illegally seizing the private property of US citizens.
Who is right about what symptomatizes decline?
Hey - is there a possibility that the government is keeping tabs on these guys and watching their movements? Is there a chance that shutting them down would interrupt valuable information flow?
I personally think that a great big RESET button needs to be hit and the USA and start over from right after WWII. When you can figure out a way to hit that reset button without there being a civil war here in the US let me know.....
This is ghost-dance religion and romanticization of the past. This is no different and no less sad than the grown-up husband and father who thinks that his senior year of high school when he was a popular football star was the best year of his life and its all been downhill since.
We live now and we fight for the best for America in the here and now.
Right after WWII, black Americans couldn't officially serve in combat, couldn't really vote in most jurisdictions and Jim Crow ruled the South. Right after WWII unions dominated the US labor force and did their best to derail the postwar recovery.
Right after WWII my grandmother died of a cancer that would have been easily operable today and left behind three small motherless children.
The future is tomorrow and I'm looking forward to improving things - not lamenting a past that never really was and that can never be recovered.
Exactly right -
r9etb - You're absolutely foolish to suggest there is nothing wrong with what is taking place here - Murder charges being brought against this two warriors is ridiculous (I won't use the words I should). AAR clearly cleared these men to begin with.....That such charges have been brought is foolishness beyond words. It is legal bureaucrats (and some with a cause) trying to make themselves relevant.....at the expense of these two warriors lives...and our NS.
Yes, both men will be cleared. But that has nothing to do with the damage that will be done in that process.
That's pretty easy to do. Just go back to any war the United States has ever fought in, prior to the Vietnam War. You don't win wars be being "nice" to a brutal enemy, or by being "fair". Had the early Americans been this stupid you and I would not be here today, because this land would still be a British colony. While the British media railed that they were fighting according to international 'rules' and the colonists weren't, the colonists were picking them off like flies from behind trees, retreating, then hitting them again, from behind. The Colonists didn't like taking prisoners either, because they had no place to keep them.
The Green Berets are the very best, and I trust they know what they're doing infinitely better than the liberal media does.
And there lies the problem. The killed some ahole that had been setting IED's, probably doing high 5's back at command. Meanwhile, general pussy, decides they should have run in, captured the terrorist bombmaker and....errrrr....who knows.....now go back to the States and face you murder charges like a good Green Beret.....
Try answering the question I put to you in #42.
What indeed? I guess the soldier that took the shot should be taken to the terrorists' family's village and then summarily executed by letting his family stone him to death.
In a reality that only my grandparents lived in IF it was bad snipe WE WOULDN'T EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT IT because we wouldn't know about it.
So why don't you answer your own question then..."What should happen in that case?". Because I know what should happen. That soldier and his Captain should be given a full go ahead for the next mission.
War isn't perfect, r9etb, maybe we should go back and revisit every single killing by an American soldier during WWII and then convict them posthumously and strip them of everything.
What indeed? I guess the soldier that took the shot should be taken to the terrorists' family's village and then summarily executed by letting his family stone him to death.
In a reality that only my grandparents lived in IF it was bad snipe WE WOULDN'T EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT IT because we wouldn't know about it.
So why don't you answer your own question then..."What should happen in that case?". Because I know what should happen. That soldier and his Captain should be given a full go ahead for the next mission.
War isn't perfect, r9etb, maybe we should go back and revisit every single killing by an American soldier during WWII and then convict them posthumously and strip them of everything.
For those of you who understand this type of war the only person who should be charge is General Frank H. Kearney, for dereliction of duty. If you want to undermine morale just keep this kind of General in charge. Their military careers are finished no matter what the out come.
Hmmm. You swayed me. you’re right. The USA is in perfect shape. The government is working perfectly. There are no problems with anything in the USA.
You’re right. I’ve seen the light, everything is going swimmingly.
Just do me one favor, if you do see a problem arise please let me know because a problem can’t be fixed unless it’s recognized.
Regarding your Q 42
You need a better understanding of this type of war. Where do you think they are “Los Angeles”
Do you know anything about the Afgans and how they fight. Its a dirty war but I guess the GBs should wear white gloves.
I didn't suggest that there's "nothing wrong" with what's taking place. That's you, letting your temper get in the way of your comprehension.
What I said was, "on balance, I think it's probably better to have [hearings like this] than not."
To their commanding general (whose CV is not that of a REMF), it appeared at the time that the shooting was unjustified. Subsequent events would suggest that for some reason he (and his staff) are still uncomfortable about the original investigation. And maybe there is, and maybe there's not something wrong. How would that uncertainty be resolved?
Now ... whatever the actual merits of the case, it's that context in which the statement "on balance" was made. It's an example of where "making sure", might be better than trying to sweep something bad under the rug.
I wouldn't want to see such hearings become the norm, but again, "on balance," it's good that such hearings take place from time to time.
Oh yeah, because that whole Confederacy project was so successful the first time around, and its motives were so pure.
Sedition and armed insurrection - against what? Against whom?
Here's a little historical background:
The Roman Republic was a radically different entity from the American Republic. The legislature was a self-appointing quasi-hereditary oligarchy with lifetime terms, not an elective body. The legislature and the judiciary were for all intents and purposes concentrated in the same hands with the same personnel. Executive authority was split in two - divided between two consuls who could only serve a year. As a result, the Senate was forced by circumstances to periodically choose dictators who sometimes overstayed their welcome. Roman society was split into two hereditary camps: patricians and plebs. At the height of the Republic's powers, less than 3% of the population could vote for any office, the majority of the population of Rome were slaves and almost no voters worked for a living but subsisted off foreign tribute or grain doled out as welfare to the plebs. The Roman Republic ended when a military dictator seized complete control over the government and ruled it as an absolute monarch in all but title.
In contrast, the American Republic has an elected legislature with fixed terms of office, and a legislature that is divided into two houses that serve to balance one another. The American judiciary is appointed by and confirmed by elected officials answerable to the public. The judiciary is also balanced out by juries selected from the electorate. The American executive is an elective office and his power is subject to review by the legislature and judiciary - but not subjected to constant obstruction by a rival consul. The executive moreover possesses the power of veto, just as the lefislature possesses the power of impeachment. Every American adult is entitled to vote for the holders of any elective office. The American people work harder for a living than any other people in the world, and do not depend on a vast army of slaves and tribute money from conquered peoples to do their work for them and pay them. Unlike Rome, the American Republic has gone 230 years without a military coup or an interruption of republican government.
Unlike Rome, America has only had one domestic insurrection that threatened the nation's survival as a political entity. Unlike Rome, no domestic insurrection has ever altered the US Constitution or forced the Republic to negotiate terms conditionally with its enemies.
I also forgot to add that I was such a dolt for believing in such crazy conspiracy theories like the US is filled with enemies that are eating away at our country like a cancer from the inside out.
I am also ashamed for believing that 90% of America has no clue about what’s going on and could care less. It’s obvious that every single American is legal and perfectly informed on all the issues of the day.
What was I thinking?
You know nothing about the Afgans or what kind of war this is.
I think you meant to say that your straw man is in perfect shape.
Here's a question - if I believed that America had no problems of any kind, why would I have spoken of an improved future for America?
You could try addressing my actual arguments instead of your fictional version of them.
You really don't have a rational bone in your head, do you?
The hypothetical case in #42 says that the soldiers actually participated in a murder. You say, "no big deal, send 'em out again."
Fine, American sentiment, that.
The guy must be a genius, since he made it to general without significant combat experience.
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