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Chaplain's firing inspires churches to rally
WND ^ | September 14, 2007 | unknown

Posted on 09/14/2007 7:16:34 AM PDT by kindred

Dozens of Christian churches ranging from Catholic to Pentecostal in theology are rallying this weekend in Leesburg, My Stand" on the back. The two-mile event Klingenschmitt noted that there are court cases already going on in several locations over the use by a Christian chaplain of the use of the words, "in Jesus' name." "Now the American people are rising to defend chaplains who pray in Jesus name. The public outcry against the hospital was so great the CEO already had to resign," he said. Hospital officials also just announced the departure of president Louis Bremer, but said it was because he felt it was time to seek new opportunities, not because of the public reaction to the dismissal of Harvey. The hospital said it dismissed Harvey from his $48,000-a-year post not because he was praying in the name of Jesus Christ, "but [because] the official duties of a paid position were not being met. Those duties include being respectful of the different religious beliefs of our patients and the ability to lead them in their faith in their time of need." Hospital officials told a newspaper guidelines from the Association of Clinical Pastoral Education teach respect for all religions. "Furthermore, the First Amendment to the United States Constitution guarantees that all citizens have a fundamental right to freely exercise their religious beliefs, and that includes military service people." The civil rights complaint stems from a 1998 memo issued by the Navy Chief of Chaplains that discouraged them from invoking the name of Jesus in their prayers. "This instruction was later embodied in an instruction from the secretary of the Navy, which provided that religious elements for a command function, absent extraordinary circumstances, should be non-sectarian in nature," the lawsuit said.

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: chaplain; injesusname; klingenschmitt; loudouncounty; rally
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[He objected, and was ordered to take a diversity course, which he did. Then at a staff meeting in August, he closed with a prayer in the name of Jesus, he said. "That's what sparked this issue. I have written documentation. I was pulled into the office on Friday and told 'Under no circumstances will you pray in this name again,'" he said. "I said, 'I can't abide by your wishes.' She also told me I should tell my volunteer chaplains they shouldn't pray in Jesus name either. About four or five days later, I was relieved of my duties." ]

This continues to happen over and over again in the new age communist run government of America.

1 posted on 09/14/2007 7:16:35 AM PDT by kindred
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To: kindred

Clever sidestepping of the issues by “the hospital”. Note no actual person taking responsiblity for the decision.

“Those duties include being respectful of the different religious beliefs of our patients” Translation: Those duties include being respectful of (pandering to) the non-Christian patients by not mentioning Jesus.”

This directly contradicts the statement: “The hospital said it dismissed Harvey from his $48,000-a-year post not because he was praying in the name of Jesus Christ”

Changing the words and blurring the issue does not change the real reason which is transparent to anyone who looks.


2 posted on 09/14/2007 7:27:09 AM PDT by generally (Ask me about FReepers Folding@Home)
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To: kindred

***...guidelines from the Association of Clinical Pastoral Education teach respect for all religions. ***

Which means: Mention no heavenly Father believed by ANY religion. So, why bother praying?


3 posted on 09/14/2007 7:43:35 AM PDT by kitkat (I refuse to let the DUers chase me off FR.)
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To: kindred

If you want to preach your specific religion become an independent preacher and you can make your speech as religion-, sect- or denomination-specific as you’d like whenever you want. But when you take that money to be a chaplain you are promising to support the religions of all under your care equally. If you want to pray to Jesus in your official capacity, you have to limit that to your services and counseling for Christians. Likewise, you shouldn’t be doing prayers to Allah with Christians.

Don’t like it? Don’t take the job.


4 posted on 09/14/2007 7:50:29 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: kindred

This was brought about because some left-wing Jewish chaplain got his panties in a twist.


5 posted on 09/14/2007 7:53:55 AM PDT by Suzy Quzy (Hillary '08...Her PHONINESS is REAL!!!)
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To: kindred

This problem happens far too often. Chaplains who understand that lots of people worship God, but only Christians worship Jesus, and yet want their prayers before mixed religious groups to reflect their belief in Jesus as God.

Now, if you think it is appropriate for him to do so, how would you feel if non-Christians in the assembly then loudly yell out, “Jesus is your god, he is not my God! Jesus is not God!”, each and every time he used the name Jesus?

In doing so, they would be as disrespectful to his beliefs as he was to theirs. But he would have “started it.”

And that is why such Chaplains are hired with the title of “Chaplain”, not hired as “Priest” or “Reverend” or “Rabbi” or “Imam”, it is done so with the assumption that they will give a non-denominational prayer to God. Not to “Jesus” or to “Allah”, either, but “God”.


6 posted on 09/14/2007 8:28:09 AM PDT by Popocatapetl
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To: antiRepublicrat

That means where the staff consists of persons of mixed religious allegiances, no prayer should be offered.


7 posted on 09/14/2007 8:36:34 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Popocatapetl

A Christian prays in the name of Jesus. Otherwise his prayers are worthless. If I have a Mohammeden pray at my bedside (which I wouldn’t) I don’t care who he mentions. Why would he pray to anyone but Allah? That’s his god.

Jesus said, if you are neither hot nor cold but lukewarm, he would spit you out. I expect my minister to have the courage of convictions, or he might as well be praying to the great mushpot in the sky.

I will concede, a person should be hired as a “Christian Chaplain” or a “Jewish Chaplain” so people will know what they are getting.


8 posted on 09/14/2007 8:38:21 AM PDT by I still care ("Remember... for it is the doom of men that they forget" - Merlin, from Excalibur)
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To: RobbyS

I am seriously looking forward to that not so far away day when Jesus takes his seat in Jerusalem and the question of who is God will never be asked again.

Maranatha.


9 posted on 09/14/2007 8:45:28 AM PDT by freepertoo
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To: I still care

I agree about the Chaplains. That was the original understanding about miliutary chaplains. That’s why some chaplains wear crosses and others wear stars of David. The problem is that the bureaucrats at DoD are totally confused.


10 posted on 09/14/2007 8:50:54 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: freepertoo

Well, that IS the only way the issue will be settled.


11 posted on 09/14/2007 8:52:39 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS

Yep.


12 posted on 09/14/2007 8:58:22 AM PDT by freepertoo
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To: Popocatapetl
Now, if you think it is appropriate for him to do so, how would you feel if non-Christians in the assembly then loudly yell out, “Jesus is your god, he is not my God! Jesus is not God!”, each and every time he used the name Jesus?

When I go to religious services of my Jewish in-laws, I don't care if they go "Hear O Israel the Lord your God is One".

13 posted on 09/14/2007 9:07:43 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty)
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To: kindred

This is more and more about Klingenschmitt. He seems to be eating up the media interest.


14 posted on 09/14/2007 9:09:33 AM PDT by PurpleMan
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To: RobbyS
That means where the staff consists of persons of mixed religious allegiances, no prayer should be offered.

Is one necessary in a group function such as that? And even if the staff desires to have one, he can give a generic religious or spiritual speech. In a mix of Christians he can learn to give a non-denominational prayer too.

15 posted on 09/14/2007 9:23:43 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: SauronOfMordor
When I go to religious services of my Jewish in-laws, I don't care if they go "Hear O Israel the Lord your God is One".

I wouldn't care either. But you are not part of their congregation. For a chaplain, every religious person there is part of his congregation.

16 posted on 09/14/2007 9:27:13 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat

If the staff agrees to a prayer, then they should accept whatever prayer the chaplain offers up. I am tired of the bullying by the disgruntled. minority or minority, who demand their way or no way. Those not wishing actually to join in the prayer, are free to keep knees unbent,. heads unbowed, and thoughts unspoken.


17 posted on 09/14/2007 10:26:25 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS
If the staff agrees to a prayer, then they should accept whatever prayer the chaplain offers up.

It the staff agrees to a prayer, the chaplain should re-read his job description and deliver a prayer that is applicable to the audience, which is apparently of mixed religions.

I am tired of the bullying by the disgruntled. minority or minority, who demand their way or no way.

Believe it or not, me too. But this is a case where the guy was hired specifically to honor the beliefs of the entire staff, Christian or not. It's backing our of your word, like joining the Army and then claiming to be a conscientious objector.

Those not wishing actually to join in the prayer, are free to keep knees unbent,. heads unbowed, and thoughts unspoken.

And that's exactly what I do when I am a guest among Christians. Non-Christians wanting respect for their beliefs often forget that such respect should go in both directions.

18 posted on 09/14/2007 10:40:55 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
The problem is that prayers to a generic "god" are not prayers to the God of the Bible, or Allah for that matter. The universalistic deity called upon in so-called nonsectarian prayers represents a different belief system from that of the Christian faith. Such prayers should be as offensive to the Christian as they are to the atheist, specifically when Jesus Christ asked that all petitions be in His name and the First Commandment states that we are not to have any strange gods before us.

It would be better that if specifically Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc., prayers are banned from military or civil functions, any other prayers, including ones to some universalistic deity, should not be recited. Additionally, Christians would be well-advised to use the power of the purse and boycott said hospital until its management relented on its rule prohibiting specifically Christian prayer by chaplains.

19 posted on 09/14/2007 10:43:44 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: I still care

Most chaplain hires are specific as to being non-denominational, and though a Christian chaplain may pray to Jesus, his religion is also replete with prayers to “God”, most any of which are acceptable to other faiths. By saying “Let us pray to God”, he may in his heart feel he is praying to Jesus, but a Jew in attendance will feel just as at home in praying to the Jewish interpretation of JHVH.

However, if he offers up a prayer specifically to “Jesus”, that excludes the Jew from offering his prayer to JHVH at the same time. The mainstream Jewish understanding of mashiach (the messiah) has little, if anything, in common with the Christian understanding of Jesus as Christ (Messiah). Jesus specifically doesn’t qualify as mashiach as far as Jews are concerned, any more than Sabbatai Zevi, so in effect they would consider it a prayer to a man, not God.

A Christian Reverend can either offer up a prayer to God, but as far as other non-Christian monotheistic religions are concerned, if he offers up a prayer to Jesus, it is no different than a pagan offering. They cannot pray to God at the same time as someone prays to another god at the same time.


20 posted on 09/14/2007 10:45:00 AM PDT by Popocatapetl
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