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To: Pikachu_Dad
A few freepers seem to believe that vigilantism is a good thing.

Justice is something for the government to mete out, not an angry mob.

If the government is not doing its job, India has a representative form of government, and they can vote in a more responsible government.

6 posted on 09/13/2007 8:32:24 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
I do not necessarily believe that vigilantism is a good thing but I do conclude from a cold study of history that it can be an inevitable thing. A society wherein citizens are bound by laws that are flouted by the lawless will either find a way to enforce them or dissolve. This is not specific to any one culture - this instance is Indian but such things have happened recently on every continent.

In every case without exception vigilantism is an expression of the failure of an inadequate or corrupt government and ineffective or nonexistent law enforcement. Blame these, not the citizens. If the law is "in their own hands" it is because it was put there.

12 posted on 09/13/2007 8:44:22 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

No doubt true in the abstract. But when the thieves and killers are right outside your door the view tends, I believe, to take on a certain urgency and the next election cycle becomes far less important than simply ensuring you and your family can live unmolested.

The main problem with vigilante justice is that sometimes it is not just at all. The wrong fellow is strung up or a member or members of the vigilance group takes advantage of the situation to exact revenge on an enemy who committed no crime. Governments make the same mistakes and commit the same crimes but we entertain the hope that the process has enough oversight and accountability built in to keep such miscarriages to a minimum. But it should be pointed out that not all governments are equally rigorous in keeping the system upright.

If I lived in a country where police and courts are arbitrary, corrupt and generally unreliable I think I might be very much tempted to take matters into my own hands. And if others shared my concerns I would join with them. I would try and make things as just as possible and in some places that would be an improvement over the “justice” meted out by corrupt police, judges and government officials.

If I read history correctly societies will normally adhere to the rule of law IF the rule of law exists at all. Generally it seems that vigilantes crop up where government fails or is virtually non-existent. In those cases to appeal to the government is a waste of time and maybe even dangerous.


13 posted on 09/13/2007 8:45:34 AM PDT by scory
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
A few freepers seem to believe that vigilantism is a good thing.

It's all in the definition. If vigilantism is a mindless angry lynch mob, as Hollywood defines it, then it is bad. If vigilantism is committees of citizens deliberatively bringing law and order and safety to an area without law and order and safety, as in many instances of American history, then it is good.

16 posted on 09/13/2007 8:50:39 AM PDT by Poincare
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
Justice is something for the government to mete out, not an angry mob.

I see vigilantism as a last resort, and I suspect these people do, too. When it gets to this point, the "justice" angle is secondary to the "deterrence" factor.

If the government is not doing its job, India has a representative form of government, and they can vote in a more responsible government.

Right. In the meantime, people still have every right -- and in many case, an OBLIGATION -- to protect their lives an property as they see fit.

20 posted on 09/13/2007 9:02:11 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
"A few freepers seem to believe that vigilantism is a good thing."i

Sometimes it "is" a good thing, when the only alternatives are worse.

"Justice is something for the government to mete out, not an angry mob."

See above, somethmes the government will NOT do it's job, and sometimes government IS the problem.

"If the government is not doing its job, India has a representative form of government, and they can vote in a more responsible government."

Sometimes that isn't possible, even with a supposedly "representative form of government". To say otherwise is a nice idealistic sentiment.

32 posted on 09/13/2007 9:58:29 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
A few freepers seem to believe that vigilantism is a good thing.

You are apparently referring to the Minutemen, who are NOT vigilantees. The incorrect and shameful effort to brand them as vigilantees by Bush, and some posters on Free Republic who are largely departed now, was a sad episode.

Sometimes vigilanteeism is necessary (sometimes it's a simple act of self defense), but it is not at all what is going on the border or what the Minutemen and similar groups are doing.
33 posted on 09/13/2007 10:04:03 AM PDT by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
Justice is something for the government to mete out, not an angry mob.

It has always been understood government is a social contract. The individual cedes a measure of his natural law right to self defense to the government in return for impartial enforcement of natural law. The extent to which goverment refuses to enforce natural law is the extent to which said government has deviated from legitimacy.

When governments renege on their obligation to the terms of the social contract, the right to self defense devolves back to the individual.

42 posted on 09/13/2007 11:40:48 AM PDT by papertyger
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