Posted on 09/02/2007 6:42:46 AM PDT by Man50D
When Republican Mike Huckabee met supporters at Knights Stadium last week, more than two dozen showed up wearing the uniform of a group trying to flex its muscle in the presidential primaries.
Dressed in white shirts with "Fair Tax" logos, they're part of a growing movement in South Carolina and around the country pushing for drastic overhaul of the nation's tax laws.
Their group, Americans for Fair Taxation, would abolish the federal income tax and Internal Revenue Service and repeal the 16th Amendment that authorizes them. They would replace it all with a 23 percent national sales tax.
Thousands of Fair Tax supporters rallied in May outside the Republican presidential debate in Columbia. A month later, more than 100 waved signs as would-be candidate Fred Thompson arrived there for a speech.
"We really think that the winner of the South Carolina presidential primary will be a Fair Tax supporter," said John Steinberger, a Charleston teacher and the group's state director.
A handful of wealthy Houston businessmen started the group more than a decade ago. The idea was popularized in a 2005 book co-authored by Neal Boortz, whose syndicated radio show airs on WBT.
Congressional proponents include Charlotte Republican Rep. Sue Myrick. She's among 63 co-sponsors of a House bill that would enact those changes.
Supporters argue that by closing loopholes and taxing what people spend, not what they earn, the sales tax would be more fair. They acknowledge that a sales tax is regressive, falling most heavily on the poor who spend a greater share of income. They say the government would make payments to the poor to help them pay the new tax.
Critics say the change is unrealistic and unworkable, and would create an accounting nightmare that would fall heavily on state governments ill-prepared to handle it.
"
(Excerpt) Read more at charlotte.com ...
You are correct. The customer pays all these taxes and compliance costs. Corporate taxes, employee withholding, employer FICA, employee FICA -- they're all in the price of the product.
Incident on the worker? Well, the employee gross wages are in the price of the product. gross = net + withholding. If the withholding isn't enough or too much, the employee adjusts it on April 15th.
But the customer still pays because the employee GROSS wage is in the price of the product, not just his taxes.
Well, let's see - there is no income tax so the durg dealer's customer isn't paying tax on his income (nor does the dealer owe tax on his income). Will the dealer charge his customer the sales tax an forward it to the government? Not likely. so how does this fair share of taxes get paid?
They're paying taxes today on everything they buy.
Let's make it real simple. Drug dealers have lawyers, right? Let's say the lawyer is self-employed. He charges the drug dealer $100 per hour. The drug dealer pays him $100 per hour.
Now, the lawyer pays income taxes and FICA, right? That comes out of the $100. The lawyer keeps $70 and send $30 to the federal government, right?
Where did that $30 come from? The drug dealer! The drug dealer is really the one paying the federal tax! If the lawyer didn't pay taxes, he would only charge $70 per hour, right? And this goes for everything the drug dealer buys -- cars, houses, furs, diamonds -- everything contains these hidden taxes, just like with the lawyer.
Now, perhaps you mean the drug dealer is not paying any income tax. That's true, he isn't. But what if we could wave a magic and and force all drug dealers to file a 1040 and pay income tax? Do you think they'll take the money out of their profits? Are you kidding? They'll simply charge more for drugs so that, after taxes, they'll have the same amount as before.
Meaning who is really paying the tax? Correct! The drug user, not the drug dealer. You were paying attention! Good for you. A gold star for elksfersuper.
Every time something legitimate is purchased.
This isn't rocket science.
I have a relatively limited supply of food, whores and Escalades.
They'll simply charge more for drugs so that, after taxes, they'll have the same amount as before.
Not if market forces are allowed to work.
(Wanna bet he charges the 23% and keeps it, making him richer than before? "Hey, kid, sorry about the price goin' up, you know? This Fair Tax thing is a bitch, huh?")
willful denial of the nature of man is not a good enough reason to force a “permission to live” tax scheme down anyone’s throat..
Phew! You're pushy. You can't even wait for my answer.
Well I did answer it in my post #94, 102 AND 112.
Now. Where's your answer to my question? Nothing but the sound of crickets. I predicted you wouldn't answer, that you would run away, and I was right.
What a waste of my time.
What is your question anyway? Is it about who is paying taxes when you pay someone to cut your grass? By that logic every time you have money withheld from your paycheck you are personally dropping a bomb on Afghanistan.
Willful denial of man's nature will be the ruination of the FairTax.
I didn't have a question for you. I was simply stating that there is about 23% in hidden taxes today that everyone is paying when they buy something. I hope my example to you illustrated this.
"By that logic every time you have money withheld from your paycheck you are personally dropping a bomb on Afghanistan."
That's what logic tells you?
I'd charge what the market will bear. If I can get you to pay me $199.95 to cut your grass I'll do it. Now I have to pay MORE taxes. If I can only get you to pay me $50 to cut your grass I pay less. But then I might not cut your sorry lawn. So, even though my family doesn't eat tonight I have been saved from a tax liability.
The FairTax will make illegal acceptable.
“Or, you can buy a domestic car. According to some Fair Taxers, domestic car manufacturers will reduce the price of their cars by 23% when they remove the hidden taxes, then add the 23% Fair Tax, resulting in that $21,000 car costing the same. You’ll still need a down payment and you’ll still need to come up with $6300.”
Faulty math...why are you using fair tax rate as 30%? Fair tax at 23% on a 21,000 car is $4830. Now, if the hidden taxes on the car match this, the cost of the car should be $16,170. Fair tax on this at 23% is $3719. Cost of car, $19889.
As to the comments about domestic vs foreign, look at it this way...foreign costs less for equal quality, comfort etc. Fair tax will hit the net cost of the foreign car more than the domestic car if the US manufacturer eliminates the hidden taxes that are not there now. All of a sudden the US economy gets a big shot in the arm because domestic cars are now competitive with the foreign. This will ring true in every industry if we still have manufacturing for that industry.
Btw, I am not arguing for or agin the F-Tax. Just commenting on the comments I have been reading, and these in particular.
The illegals aren't.
In my example, legitimate lawn services are charging $130. The illegals are charging $100, not $130, and making the same amount of money!
More, actually, because at $100 they've got more business than they can handle. You go right ahead and charge $199.95 -- I'm hiring Jose.
What if Jose has to start paying income taxes? What will he charge and who will end up paying those taxes?
THAT'S my point. Who really pays his taxes? The answer is, the consumer.
We get the point. Why is it relevant?
Yep. Combined with state and local sales taxes, it's a big incentive.
Are there any friends? Excpet of course among themselves?
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