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The politics of mosque-building
Economist ^ | Aug 30th 2007 | Editorial

Posted on 08/30/2007 9:13:00 AM PDT by IrishMike

In many Western cities, plans to erect mosques often stir more passion than any other local issue—and politicians are leaping into the fray.

NOT since Cologne was rebuilt half a century ago, out of the rubble of war, has a change in the urban landscape generated so much heat. A city whose main landmark is a medieval cathedral may soon share its skyline with another place of worship: a large mosque with minarets more than 50 metres (165 feet) high.

While the city's (mainly Turkish) Muslim population of over 120,000 is looking forward to the new building—a sign, perhaps, that it has finally put down roots in a country that long treated migrant workers as guests—Cologne as a whole is deeply divided. A poll found that 36% of residents were happy with the mosque plan, 29% wanted to see it scaled down and 31% were entirely against it. The “no” and “yes” camps are not just passionate, they are diverse. Those who approve the plan include many Roman Catholic clergy. But a far-right party, “Pro Cologne”, which holds five of the 90 seats in the city council, has done well by drumming up opposition to the mosque. Also prominent among the “noes” (while distancing himself from Pro Cologne) is Ralph Giordano, a German-Jewish writer and Holocaust survivor, who stirred a national debate by issuing a stark message: “I urge the mayor and the members of the city council to stop the building of this mosque!”

.......................................................

All over the Western world, mosques and mosque-building plans are generating passionate arguments, particularly in local and municipal affairs. In many cities, both opponents and supporters of Muslim construction projects have realised that this issue engages voters far more than drains or libraries do.

In the east London borough of Newham, for example, proposals to build a “mega-mosque” to accommodate at least 12,000 worshippers have divided local people (of whom at least a quarter are Muslim) and drawn global attention. British Muslims have been lining up for or against Tablighi Jamaat, the conservative missionary movement behind the mosque. Some are dismayed at the thought that this hard-line group could soon become one of British Islam's most obvious faces, only a stone's throw from the site of the 2012 Olympics; others defend the movement's right to build, noting that Newham's existing mosques are visibly overflowing during Friday prayers.

......................................................

The terms of the mosque debate vary widely: in the United States, mosque projects often meet practical objections, to do with “zoning”, water supplies or parking, but they are usually overcome, helped by a legal system that protects all faiths. In southern European countries like Spain and Italy—where attachment to Catholic symbolism is strong—people are much blunter about expressing their objections in cultural terms: this is a Christian land, and mosques have no place here.

In Rome, on August 21st, police halted work at a site on the Esquiline hill, in an area with a high immigrant population. The sponsors of a planned mosque there were found to have begun work without seeking permission from the local authority. The new building was to have gone up just a few metres from a Catholic church; for some, that was the most important point. A spokesman for a new far-right movement, La Destra, called it “an insult to Christian culture”.

Reza Aslan, a Californian writer on Islam, says that to his American eyes the intensity of openly “Islamophobic” opposition to mosques in parts of Europe, especially the south, is a shock. “It's as though some Europeans are confused about their identity and are now trying to construct one in opposition to Islam.”

But California is itself no paradise for Muslims: a mosque near San Francisco has just been burned down. Christina Abraham, a civil-rights lawyer in Chicago, says mosque builders around her city often have to work twice as hard as other religious groups to get the necessary permits, even though they do eventually get their way. One mosque in the Chicago area faced an apparently malicious regulation which banned parking for three hours on Friday afternoons—the time when worshippers were arriving. Lawyers successfully challenged the rule, on grounds of religious discrimination.

In some European countries—like Germany—the atmosphere faced by would-be mosque builders varies a lot, even within cities. Berlin is one example. In the western district of Kreuzberg, Turkish migrants and their prayers have been part of the scene for decades. But in the capital's east, local residents and politicians from the far-right NPD party are leading loud protests against the building of the first mosque in the ex-communist part of the city. In Munich, meanwhile, the conservative government of Bavaria is locked in battle with the centre-left dominated city hall over the plan for a new mosque. For now, the conservative opponents seem to be winning; a local court has called the current plan incompatible with the surroundings.

If controversy over mosques is getting louder in Germany now, that may be because the Turkish community has only recently started claiming citizenship and the right to vote.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: crushislam; islam; islamicimperialism; islamicsupremacists; korananimals; mosqueandstate; muslims; saudifunded
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1 posted on 08/30/2007 9:13:04 AM PDT by IrishMike
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To: IrishMike; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
They're building a 2 minaret mosque not far from me - in Latham NY.

Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


2 posted on 08/30/2007 9:17:32 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: IrishMike

The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers.


3 posted on 08/30/2007 9:18:08 AM PDT by PGalt
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: PGalt

The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers.
.......................................................

I got a problem with that religion of Peace thing ....


5 posted on 08/30/2007 9:20:01 AM PDT by IrishMike (As America wins, the Democrats and their apologists lose.)
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To: IrishMike
In many Western cities, plans to erect mosques often stir more
passion than any other local issue


Take Note:
This includes the tolerant citizenry of Germany.
The Los Angeles Times (maybe 5 years ago?) had a big article about
how a lot of Germans finally were getting tired of the mosque construction
in their neighborhoods (which were thusly being "de-constructed").

It wasn't just about architectural disdain...the Germans interviewed
were bold enough to even admit they suspected that the mosques were
eventually just going to be breeding grounds for discontent and
terrorism.

On this side of the pond, we shouldn't feel bad about not being
happy about our increasing dhimmitude.
We shouldn't be importing hordes of Islamics and their co-congregants.
Most of which won't lift a finger to stop their Jihad-minded brothers.
6 posted on 08/30/2007 9:23:15 AM PDT by VOA
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To: PGalt

You’ve nailed it!


7 posted on 08/30/2007 9:23:32 AM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3rd Bn. 5th Marines, RVN 1969. St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!)
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To: VOA

Just wait until all the Iraqi refugees start arriving! And then they each have about 6 kids. They are taking over without even trying.


8 posted on 08/30/2007 9:29:07 AM PDT by Pining_4_TX
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To: IrishMike

The only thing a mosque is good for is that it provides a place to put the crosshairs of the bombsight and it collects the targets together for more efficient elimination.


9 posted on 08/30/2007 9:35:31 AM PDT by BuffaloJack (Before the government can give you a dollar it must first take it from another American)
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To: Pining_4_TX
Just wait until all the Iraqi refugees start arriving! And then
they each have about 6 kids. They are taking over without even trying.


That's part of The Democratic Party Iraqi Victory Plan.

At least that's my cynical thought.
Having heard a Democratic operative (can't recall name) a few
weeks ago passionately promoting the idea that it's just about
time to start bringing all the Iraqis that worked for The USA/Coalition
TO the USA.

I guess the Democrats are afraid that there might be a repeat of
a US helicopter (this time, not a Huey)lifting off from the roof of
an American Embassy.
Only this time the American electorate might be wise enough
to realize THEY (the Dems) are the ones that lost Iraq (and destroyed
any chance of Middle Eastern sanity due to their mendacity)
10 posted on 08/30/2007 9:36:19 AM PDT by VOA
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To: IrishMike

“31% were entirely against it.”

I’m with them.


11 posted on 08/30/2007 9:43:52 AM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: IrishMike

“existing mosques are visibly overflowing during Friday prayers.”
Deport the “overflow!” It’d be a good start.


12 posted on 08/30/2007 9:45:10 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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To: IrishMike

Simply put, why is our country allowing our enemy to build here in the first place. Who gave them this authority?


13 posted on 08/30/2007 9:50:06 AM PDT by freekitty (May the eagles long fly over our beautiful and free American sky.)
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To: VOA; Pining_4_TX; IrishMike
Pope Benedict 16 said that there should be "reciprocity" in recognizing religious rights. So how 'bout: the can put up mosques on a one-for-one basis as soon as Saudi Arabia starts putting up Christian churches.

As most Americans DON'T know, there are significant numbers of Christian foreigners in S.A. Loys of workers from Southeast Asia, including Christian Filipinos and Vietnamese, who are essentially slaves subjected to physical and sexual abuse, non-payment of wages, confinement, and withholding of passports as a restriction on their movement. Lots of Africans, including Christian Nigerian women and children trafficked into Saudi Arabia for commercial sexual exploitation. More than 35% of the population in the 15-64 age group is non-national (CIA World Fact Book, 2006 est.)

Right now it is illegal for a foreign worker, tourist or businessman to bring a crucifix, a Bible, or any other religious object into Saudi Arabia, even for private use.

Tell me again why they're our allies?

14 posted on 08/30/2007 9:55:50 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Perplexed.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Pope Benedict 16 said that there should be "reciprocity" in recognizing religious rights.

"Mission Impossible" in regards to Islam (although I respect the Pope
for suggesting a rational concept)

"More than 35% of the population in the 15-64 age group is non-national
(CIA World Fact Book, 2006 est.)"


In truth, they are just doing the jobs Saudis won't (and often
CAN'T) do.
15 posted on 08/30/2007 9:59:57 AM PDT by VOA
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To: ConorMacNessa; IrishMike

Author here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recep_Tayyip_Erdo%C4%9Fan


16 posted on 08/30/2007 10:06:03 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: IrishMike
One mosque in the Chicago area faced an apparently malicious regulation which banned parking for three hours on Friday afternoons—the time when worshippers were arriving. Lawyers successfully challenged the rule, on grounds of religious discrimination.

You call that discrimination? Amateurs!

Saudi Arabia - Conversion by a Muslim to another religion is punishable by death. Bibles are illegal. Churches are illegal. Easter celebrations are illegal. It is punishable by death for a non-mulsim to enter the "holy" muslim cities of Medina and Mecca.

Yemen - Bans proselytizing by non-Muslims and forbids conversions. The Government does not allow the building of new non-Muslim places of worship.

Kuwait - Registration and licensing of religious groups. Members of religions not sanctioned in the Koran may not build places of worship. Prohibits organized religious education for religions other than Islam.

Egypt - Islam is the official state religion and primary source of legislation. Accordingly, religious practices that conflict with Islamic law are prohibited. Muslims may face legal problems if they convert to another faith. Requires non-Muslims to obtain what is now a presidential decree to build a place of worship.

Algeria - The law prohibits public assembly for purposes of practicing a faith other than Islam. Non-Islamic proselytizing is illegal, and the Government restricts the importation of non-Islamic literature for distribution. The country has passed the "Regulation of Religious Practice" law, which stipulates a punishment of two to five years' imprisonment and heavy fines for anyone convicted of urging a Muslim to change his religion.

Syria - The constitution requires the president to be a Muslim and specifies that Islamic jurisprudence is a principal source of legislation. Sharing your Christian faith is discouraged as "posing a threat to the relations among religious groups" and carries a penalty of up to life in prison. A Christian is not allowed to proselytize – ever. Churches who want to hold an extra service must get a government permit. Sermons are routinely monitored, as is church fundraising.

Jordan - Has the death penalty for any Muslim selling land to a Jew.

Sudan - Conversion by a Muslim to another religion is punishable by death.

Pakistan - Conversion by a Muslim to another religion is punishable by death. Bans proselytizing by non-Muslims. Christians regularly put in prison for charges of blasphemy. Islam is the state religion, and in a court of law the testimony of a Christian carries less weight than that of a Muslim. Section 295(c) of the Penal Code calls for a death sentence for anyone who defiles the name of the Prophet Muhammad and requires the testimony of four Muslims for a conviction. This fosters an environment in which Muslims can feel free to use intimidation and violence against religious minorities for personal gain. Also, if any criminal Muslim rape with any Christian female and then take plea that she has accepted Islam and marry with him. Such person is not culpable under Pakistani criminal law

Qatar - Islamic instruction is compulsory in public schools. The government regulates the publication, importation, and distribution of non-Islamic religious literature. The government continues to prohibit proselytizing of Muslims by non-Muslims.

Malaysia - Under Malaysian law, any convert to Christianity must apply to a shariah (Muslim law) court to legally renounce Islam. Many Christians prefer to remain silent converts rather than take their battle to the shariah courts, where apostasy or conversion out of Islam is punishable by whipping, fines, imprisonment and--in the most extreme application--death. In a country where Muslims account for more than half of the population, conversion from Islam is punished with a 5-year prison sentence and a $3,000 fine. A Malaysian Muslim who marries a non-Muslim and who converts the non-Muslim to Islam is rewarded with an apartment, a car, a one-time payment of $2,700, and a monthly stipend of $270.

The Maldives - In the island paradise visited by tens of thousands of tourists each year, Christianity is simply not tolerated. While local Christians – said to number around 300 out of a total population of 300,000 – do get together to worship, they do so at the risk of imprisonment or worse if discovered by the Muslim authorities. Bibles are banned, and tourists can be arrested for trying to bring them into the country.

England - Bradford, Yorkshire, UK. Pop. 300,000 - 20% Islamic. Local police required to tell community elders the location of girls who run away to escape arranged marriages. Bars and liquor stores in the Lumb Lane / Manningham Lane area of the city ‘requested’ to close on Fridays. Schools, colleges, and health clinics have to have separate areas for women, with a copy of the Koran available. Public critcism of Islam or it’s adherents, such as letters to the local paper, emails to friends, speeches etc, can and has led to criminal charges ‘Using words intentionally and wilfully to cause fear, hate, or distress. Christmas decorations not to be put up, as this may make the Moslems feel ‘culturally overshadowed’. Shops ‘requested’ not to display easter eggs for the same reason. The term ‘requested’ means not legally enforceable but local police warn that they cannot intervene if your premises get ‘damaged’ somehow. Local councillors and MPs have encouraged all this for the past 15 years. Bradford Northwest MP Ann Cryer regularly appears with long sleeves and her head covered. She once stated that women in Islam are properly liberated and that Islam is an example to us all.

17 posted on 08/30/2007 10:11:03 AM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: 2banana

Excellent information, thanks for the post.


18 posted on 08/30/2007 10:23:23 AM PDT by IrishMike (As America wins, the Democrats and their apologists lose.)
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To: IrishMike

Awful lot of contruction for an outhouse...


19 posted on 08/30/2007 10:33:17 AM PDT by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Right now it is illegal for a foreign worker, tourist or businessman to bring a crucifix, a Bible, or any other religious object into Saudi Arabia, even for private use.

You forgot the Holy Eucharist. Even that is not allowed to be seen anywhere in public.

20 posted on 08/30/2007 12:02:41 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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