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Guess What Folks - Secession Wasn't Treason
The Copperhead Chronicles ^ | August 2007 | Al Benson

Posted on 08/27/2007 1:37:39 PM PDT by BnBlFlag

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Copperhead Chronicle Al Benson, Jr. Articles

Guess What Folks--Secesson Wasn't Treason by Al Benson Jr.

More and more of late I have been reading articles dealing with certain black racist groups that claim to have the best interests of average black folks at heart (they really don't). It seems these organizations can't take time to address the problems of black crime in the black community or of single-parent families in the black community in any meaningful way. It's much more lucrative for them (and it gets more press coverage) if they spend their time and resources attacking Confederate symbols. Ive come to the conclusion that they really don't give a rip for the welfare of black families. They only use that as a facade to mask their real agenda--the destruction of Southern, Christian culture.

Whenever they deal with questions pertaining to history they inevitably come down on that same old lame horse that the South was evil because they seceded from the Union--and hey--everybody knows that secession was treason anyway. Sorry folks, but that old line is nothing more than a gigantic pile of cow chips that smells real ripe in the hot August sun! And I suspect that many of them know that--they just don't want you to know it--all the better to manipulate you my dear!

It is interesting that those people never mention the fact that the New England states threatened secession three times--that's right three times--before 1860. In 1814 delegates from those New England states actually met in Hartford, Connecticut to consider seceding from the Union. Look up the Hartford Convention of 1814 on the Internet if you want a little background. Hardly anyone ever mentions the threatened secession of the New England states. Most "history" books I've seen never mention it. Secession is never discussed until 1860 when it suddenly became "treasonous" for the Southern states to do it. What about the treasonous intent of the New England states earlier? Well, you see, it's only treasonous if the South does it.

Columnist Joe Sobran, whom I enjoy, once wrote an article in which he stated that "...Jefferson was an explicit secessionist. For openers he wrote a famous secessionist document known to posterity as the Declaration of Independence." If these black racist groups are right, that must mean that Jefferson was guilty of treason, as were Washington and all these others that aided them in our secession from Great Britain. Maybe the black racists all wish they were still citizens of Great Britain. If that's the case, then as far as I know, the airlines are still booking trips to London, so nothing is stopping them.

After the War of Northern Aggression against the South was over (at least the shooting part) the abolitionist radicals in Washington decided they would try Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederate States as a co-conspirator in the Lincoln assassination (which would have been just great for Edwin M. Stanton) and as a traitor for leading the secessionist government in Richmond, though secession had hardly been original with Mr. Davis. However, trying Davis for treason as a secessionist was one trick the abolitionist radicals couldn't quite pull off.

Burke Davis, (no relation to Jeff Davis that I know of) in his book The Long Surrender on page 204, noted a quote by Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase, telling Edwin Stanton that "If you bring these leaders to trial, it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution, secession is not rebellion...His (Jeff Davis') capture was a mistake. His trial will be a greater one. We cannot convict him of treason." Burke Davis then continued on page 214, noting that a congressiona committee proposed a special court for Davis' trial, headed by Judge Franz Lieber. Davis wrote: "After studying more than 270,000 Confederate documents, seeking evidence against Davis, the court discouraged the War Department: 'Davis will be found not guilty,' Lieber reported 'and we shall stand there completely beaten'." What the radical Yankees and their lawyers were admitting among themselves (but quite obviously not for the historical record) was that they and Lincoln had just fought a war of aggression agains the Southern states and their people, a war that had taken or maimed the lives of over 600,000 Americans, both North and South, and they had not one shread of constitutional justification for having done so, nor had they any constitutional right to have impeded the Southern states when they chose to withdraw from a Union for which they were paying 83% of all the expenses, while getting precious little back for it, save insults from the North.

Most of us detest big government or collectivism. Yet, since the advent of the Lincoln administration we have been getting ever increasing doses of it. Lincoln was, in one sense, the "great emancipator" in that he freed the federal government from any chains the constitution had previously bound it with, so it could now roam about unfettered "seeking to devous whoseover it could." And where the Founders sought to give us "free and independent states" is anyone naive enough anymore as to think the states are still free and independent? Those who honestly still think that are prime candidates for belief in the Easter Bunny, for he is every bit as real as is the "freedom" our states experience at this point in history. Our federal government today is even worse than what our forefathers went to war against Britain to prevent. And because we have been mostly educated in their government brain laundries (public schools) most still harbor the illusion that they are "free." Well, as they say, "the brainwashed never wonder." ___________________

About the Author

Al Benson Jr.'s, [send him email] columns are to found on many online journals such as Fireeater.Org, The Sierra Times, and The Patriotist. Additionally, Mr. Benson is editor of the Copperhead Chronicle [more information] and author of the Homeschool History Series, [more information] a study of the War of Southern Independence. The Copperhead Chronicle is a quarterly newsletter written with a Christian, pro-Southern perspective.

When A New Article Is Released You Will Know It First! Sign-Up For Al Benson's FREE e-Newsletter

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Copperhead Chronicle | Homeschool History Series | Al Benson, Jr. Articles


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: albenson; aracistscreed; billyyankdiedforzip; bobbykkkbyrd; civilwar; confedcrud; confederacy; confederate; confederatecrap; constitutionalgovt; crap; cruddy; damnyankees; despotlincoln; dishonestabe; dixie; dixiecrats; dixieforever; dixieisthebest; dixieland; dixiepropaganda; dixierinos; dixietrash; dumbbunny; dumbyankees; frkkklanrally; goodolddays; hillbillyparty; intolerantyanks; jeffdavisisstilldead; kkk; kkklosers; lincolnregime; lincolnwarcriminal; mightmakesright; moneygrubbingyankee; mossbacks; murdererlincoln; neoconfederates; northernagression; northernbigots; northernfleas; northernterrorist; northisgreat; noteeth; obnoxiousyankees; ohjeeze; racism; racists; rebelrash; rednecks; secession; segregationfanclub; slaveowners; slaveryapologists; sorelosers; southernbabies; southernbigots; southernfleas; southernheritage; southwillriseagain; stupidthread; traitors; tyrantlincoln; warforwhat; warsoveryoulost; wehateyankees; wehateyanks; welovedixie; weloveyankess; wewonhaha; yalljustthinkyouwon; yankeecrap; yankeedespots; yankeedogs; yankeeelete; yankeehippocrites; yankeeleftist; yankeeliberals; yankeemoneygrubber; yankeescum; yankeestupidity; yankeeswine; yankeeswon; yankeeterrorists; yanksarebigots; yankslosttoodummies; yankswon; youlost
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To: x

The Voting Rights Act contains some pretty appalling provisions. It requires states to provide bilingual ballots. That’s a sure way to help balkanize the country. If someone’s been here five years and can’t read English they shouldn’t be voting. The act also bans literacy tests. We should have literacy tests for voting. Voting is a privilege, not a right. The act bans all poll taxes, even in state and local elections. I’m against poll taxes, but Congress has no authority to ban them except in federal elections (24th Amendment).

You’re correct that the VRA isn’t as pernicious as slavery, segregation, and lynching. However, current crime rates, in which black-on-white crime is many times worse than white-on-black, are as pernicious as lynching. And unlike lynching, it’s going on right now (not 70 years ago), but we’re not allowed to talk about it.

As for segregation, it’s making a comeback. Go to any major college campus and check out the black-only organizations, meeting places, and even dorms. We had a post here at FR a few months ago on Hispanic-only graduation ceremonies, which are becoming popular in certain regions. Look forward to Muslims getting their own turf as well. All this will be courtesy of the same PC nitwits who want to suppress memories of the Confederacy. And wait’ll California wants to secede. Talk about the left and the PC Cons facing a crisis!

We’ve been over the slavery thing before. Yes, it was bad, but American blacks today are beneficiaries of it. They have the highest standard of living of any blacks on earth thanks to those nasty southern slave owners who brought their ancestors over here. You don’t hear Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, Terry Anderson, or Michael Steele moaning about slavery, because they’d rather appreciate what our Founders gave us than whine. Leave the whining to Jesse & Al & the other race hustlers.


381 posted on 08/29/2007 9:45:31 PM PDT by puroresu
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To: stand watie
are you having a BAD day, perchance???

No. Just tired of your nonsense.

382 posted on 08/30/2007 3:53:43 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Damn, you’re at it early this morning! Or are you a night owl like me?


383 posted on 08/30/2007 6:45:40 AM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: x
They needed a federal government that was strong enough to enforce the laws. But they didn't want to the federal government to be too powerful or to explicitly endorse federal coercion of state governments that refused to obey the laws. So they punted, and simply ignored the question.

No, it was addressed and rejected. The clause under consideration was 'reserving to the States respectively, the appointment of the officers, and authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed'. Madison moved to amend it to 'reserving to the States respectively, the appointment of the officers, under the rank of General officers.' In other words, the federal government would appoint State militia generals, AND federalize the 'authority of training the militia' by removing it from the states.

The federal government would control the top echelon of officers and the entire training process, ensuring that sufficient brainwashing occurred to put federal interests above that of each state. Not a bad deal, the states would foot the bill, but the feds would ensure allegiance. Roger Sherman (CN) blew this insane idea out of the water. Elbridge Gerry (MA) notes 'as the States are not to be abolished, he wondered at the attempts that were made to give powers inconsistent with their existence.' In other words, allowing the federal government to control the militias could (or would) be seen as an effort to eradicate state sovereignty and control. The state militias were to owe allegiance to the state, and be used when necessary to aid another state in the union.

To drum up support for his motion Madison then addresses 'the greatest danger' - the 'disunion of the States'.

We interrupt this message for the following: Obviously if it required state or federal consent to leave the disunion would be a moot point. Thus Madison's desire to prevent disunion is to prevent unilateral secession of a state or states. We now return to the regularly scheduled reply.
And to guard against this insidious evil, Madison adverts that the appointments of generals and federal control of the militias would prevent secession, and by granting other 'sufficient powers to the Common Govt.'

Obviously the convention refused to do so. The record indicates that the states immediately voted down Madison's motion. I can only surmise that the other delegates sat in shocked disbelief, as Madison of all people, argued for military and legal power to prevent secession. 11 years earlier the states seceded from Britain, now 12 states were discussing their own pending secession from the existing union.

384 posted on 08/30/2007 7:01:56 AM PDT by 4CJ (Annoy a liberal, honour Christians and our gallant Confederate dead)
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To: Boiler Plate
laughing AT you.

it has been my experience that you have a "reading comprehension problem".

free dixie,sw

385 posted on 08/30/2007 7:12:54 AM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: Non-Sequitur
EVERYBODY (with the possible exception of some of the DUMBEST of the DY DUMB-bunnies) is tired of your arrogance, deceptions & DAMNyankee PROPAGANDA.

care to try something different???

free dixie,sw

386 posted on 08/30/2007 7:14:58 AM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: 4CJ
WELL said.

only the ARROGANT REVISIONISTS, the pitifully IGNORANT or the terminally STUPID could miss that the founders of this republic had NO intention of prohibiting secession!

secession was/IS an option to prevent TYRANNY by the central government.

free dixie,sw

387 posted on 08/30/2007 7:19:24 AM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep; PeaRidge
Lincoln had already promised to remove the garrison:
Mr. Lincoln jumped up from his chair, as Mr. Rives was standing, advanced one step towards him, and said, "Mr. Rives! Mr. Rives! if Virginia will stay in, I will withdraw the troops from Fort Sumter."
Hiram Fuller, North and South, Londen: Chapman and Hall, 1863, p.261
Virginia remained in the union. Lincoln did not remove the troops. Lincoln LIED. Lincoln KNEW that resupply attempts would cause war:
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=lincoln;rgn=div1;view=text;idno=lincoln4;node=lincoln4%3A432

Page 289
1st. The Fort cannot be permanently held without reinforcement.

This point is too apparent too [sic] need proof

The cutting off supplies and consequent starvation, not to mention disease, would compel surrender in a few months at farthest, without firing a gun

2 The Fort cannot now be re-inforced without a large armament, involving of course a bloody conflict and great exasperation on both sides, and when re-inforced can only be held by sufficient number to garrison the post and to keep open communication with it by means of the harbor.

Lincoln wanted WAR. Despite his acknowledgement that such was invasion and cooercion (documented by PeaRidge in #349) . And Lincoln was ALLEGEDLY against coercion:
I have said that I did not believe that this Union could be cemented by blood. It is the sincere conviction of my heart still. Mr. Seward has said the same thing, in effect, in as many as two speeches, at least, and in his foreign dispatches he says, "The President willingly accepts the doctrine as true, that the Federal government cannot reduce the seceding States to obedience by conquest;" and he adds, "Only an imperial or despotic government could subjugate thoroughly disaffected and insurrectionary members of the state."
Letter of Kentucky Governor C. S. Morehead to Senator John J. Crittendon (23 Feb. 1861), The Life Of John. J. Crittendon: With Selections from His Correspondence and Speeches, Mrs. Chapman Coleman ed., Philadelphia: J. B. Lippicott & Co. (1873), Vol. 1 pp. 338-339.

388 posted on 08/30/2007 7:24:36 AM PDT by 4CJ (Annoy a liberal, honour Christians and our gallant Confederate dead)
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To: sportutegrl
You are right, especially in light of the South paying 83% of what it took to run the nation. I wonder what the next generation will do when faced with 50% plus taxation rates?
389 posted on 08/30/2007 7:30:21 AM PDT by 2001convSVT ("People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence")
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To: BnBlFlag
Damn, you’re at it early this morning! Or are you a night owl like me?

No, work. I was stuck on a boring conference call with people in the UK, New Zealand, and India which I don't think that I really needed to be on in the first place. My mind wandered.

390 posted on 08/30/2007 8:43:23 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: stand watie
EVERYBODY (with the possible exception of some of the DUMBEST of the DY DUMB-bunnies) is tired of your arrogance, deceptions & DAMNyankee PROPAGANDA.

Everybody I know is just tired of you, period.

391 posted on 08/30/2007 8:44:22 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
laughing AT you.

you're "losing it", N-S.

free dixie,sw

392 posted on 08/30/2007 8:56:31 AM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: Non-Sequitur
well, certainly the "useful idiots", LEFTISTS, REVISIONISTS, nitwits, LIARS, fools & LUNATICS of "the DAMNyankee coven" are tired of me making fun of them.

my suggestion is: if you don't want to be made fun of and ridiculed for STUPIDITY, DISHONESTY & being a "general all-around creep", LEAVE the FR forum.

free dixie,sw

393 posted on 08/30/2007 8:59:32 AM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: BnBlFlag
This issue escalated to a horrible war, and you lost. You were wrong, and you lost. Just like the Nazis, you have a duty to STFU about it now !!

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT, MORE AMERICANS TO GET KILLED OVER THIS ISSUE ? STFU !!!

394 posted on 08/30/2007 9:13:28 AM PDT by SENTINEL (USMC GWI (MY GOD IS GOD, ROCKCHUCKER !!))
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To: SENTINEL; All
well, aren't you an IGNORANT, arrogant,"useful idiot"???

my suggestion is that you LEAVE FR, as this site is for INTELLIGENT people, rather than for:

DUMB-bunnies,

VULGAR-talking nitwits (LADIES & impressionable CHILDREN read these posts!) and

HATE-filled FOOLS. (fyi, you seem to be ALL of those PITIFUL creatures.)

in point of FACT, it was the hate-FILLED, arrogant, RADICALS/fascists out of the northeast who WANTED to fight a WAR to keep the south subservient to their LUST for evermore MONEY & POWER.

had lincoln (the TYRANT & cheap,scheming, shyster lawyer) accepted dixie FREEDOM, there would have been NO WAR & a MILLION Americans would NOT died for NOTHING of VALUE.

"buzz off", DUMB-bunny.

free dixie,sw free dixie,sw

395 posted on 08/30/2007 9:39:14 AM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: 4CJ
Mr. Lincoln jumped up from his chair, as Mr. Rives was standing, advanced one step towards him, and said, "Mr. Rives! Mr. Rives! if Virginia will stay in, I will withdraw the troops from Fort Sumter."

Hiram Fuller, North and South, Londen: Chapman and Hall, 1863, p.261

An interesting story, except that Fuller wasn't there and the participants who were there varied in their accounts of what happened, the two versions being either Lincoln never said any such thing, or that the recipients didn't think it worth mentioning to the Virginia convention.

COL BALDWIN: When we arrived at the house of Mr. Botts, we were shown into the parlor, and, after the ordinary salutations, Mr. Botts opened the conversation by asking me if I had reported to the Convention what had passed between Mr. Lincoln and myself on my recent visit to Washington. I replied that I had not. He asked, why not? And I told him the Convention had nothing to do with the matter, and that I had gone to see the President at the instance of some of the Union men of the Convention, to whom I had reported fully all that occurred. Taking hold of my remark, that the Convention had nothing to do with the matter, he became somewhat excited, and told me that I had taken upon myself a very grave responsibility in withholding the knowledge of such an interview from the Convention. He did not, according to my recollection, undertake to give me any account of the interview as derived from Mr. Lincoln, but pressed questions upon me as to whether the Convention had nothing to do with the question of its own adjournment; nothing to do with the evacuation of Fort Sumter. I remember telling him that both of those subjects had been discussed between Mr. Lincoln and myself, and he again inquired how I could withhold such a conversation from the Convention, to which I again replied, that I had reported to those who sent me, and that it was not reported to the Convention, for the reason that there was nothing in the conversation upon which the Convention could act, or upon which I, as a member of the Convention, would have been willing to act. I soon found that I was willing to undergo a species of reproof to which I was not accustomed, and that the conversation was likely to be a long and not a very pleasant one; so I put an end to it by telling him that if he desired to know all that had passed between Mr. Lincoln and myself I had no objection to tell him, or to discuss the matter fully with him, but that I could not do so then, as the Convention was about to meet, and I felt bound to be present at an important vote expected that morning.

source

396 posted on 08/30/2007 10:09:11 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: 4CJ
2 The Fort cannot now be re-inforced without a large armament, involving of course a bloody conflict and great exasperation on both sides, and when re-inforced can only be held by sufficient number to garrison the post and to keep open communication with it by means of the harbor.

Unless, of course, South Carolina simply allowed the fort to be resupplied instead of opening fire on it.

397 posted on 08/30/2007 10:20:54 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: stand watie

Your continual insults, bombast, bluster, and liberal use of ALL CAPS are fun to watch ... but it’s apparent that you don’t realize the consequence, which that it’s enormously difficult to take your posts seriously.


398 posted on 08/30/2007 10:39:02 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
An interesting story, except that Fuller wasn't there and the participants who were there varied in their accounts of what happened, the two versions being either Lincoln never said any such thing, or that the recipients didn't think it worth mentioning to the Virginia convention.

Wow, what a stretch - I never claimed Baldwin was present. Attending the meeting were William Cabell Rives [former minister to France, US Senator], Judge Somers of Virginia, Gen. Donovan of Missouri, James Gutherie [former Secretary of the Treasury), and Gov. Charles S. Morehead of Kentucky.

Neither Col. Baldwin, nor John Minor Botts attended this meeting.

399 posted on 08/30/2007 11:10:46 AM PDT by 4CJ (Annoy a liberal, honour Christians and our gallant Confederate dead)
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To: 4CJ; Bubba Ho-Tep
Wow, what a stretch - I never claimed Baldwin was present. Attending the meeting were William Cabell Rives [former minister to France, US Senator], Judge Somers of Virginia, Gen. Donovan of Missouri, James Gutherie [former Secretary of the Treasury), and Gov. Charles S. Morehead of Kentucky.

Neither Col. Baldwin, nor John Minor Botts attended this meeting.

Apparently they met separately with Lincoln. Botts reports on his separate meeting with President Lincoln where the subject of recalling the fleet and Baldwin's earlier rejection of Lincoln's proposition were discussed.

Botts' account can be found in: "The great rebellion: its secret history, rise, progress, and disastrous failure." By John Minor Botts. Pages 194-196. Source

400 posted on 08/30/2007 12:30:16 PM PDT by rustbucket
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