Posted on 08/27/2007 7:53:49 AM PDT by Turret Gunner A20
I think I did so, just not in the post you're responding to.
Jeez, dude! I was saying that people contemplating a change to a sales tax system would need to take this issue into account, becauae to do otherwise is to base your expectations on ripping off the people with savings. Who the hell pissed in your Wheaties? I'm just trying to have a civil, reasoned discussion here.
I make perfect sense. A drug dealer is a seller of goods, which under the fairtax are suppose to be taxed. If I sell $10,000 worth of consumable goods, I would be absolutely liable under the fairtax to submit $2300. I must pay a gross retail sales tax, period. I would only net $7700 if I followed the law. The drug dealer nets $10,000 and will pocket the extra $2300 he is legally liable to submit. He has that extra $2300 to spend. It works out EXACTLY the same under both systems. I am not being critical of the fairtax, I am pointing out a simple fact.
You want to get in to sematics about who pays it and claim it is the buyer. Under the fairtax, it is the seller who pays it. It comes off of his profit. As a seller of goods or services, I have to convince my customer that my goods are worth $100 eventhough I only get to keep $77. A drug dealer or prostitute doesn't. They cheat the fairtax system, period.
I bet the modeling is complex!
I can guarantee you that the results from the FairTax cosponsors will be published well before you have anything published.
You make it sound as if the FairTax strategy is to get to the market first with a new set of lies, sell it hard to vest the grass roots in the free lunch before the truth is revealed.
And the federal gas tax?
To repeat; the FairTax is a replacement tax, it is not a tax on a tax.
The FairTax does tax the federal gas tax.
It’s still a shame that this debate about much needed tax reforms and all of the “pros” and “cons” of each and every tax reform idea is presently going on only on this thread instead of also presently going on in Congress! Serious headway on this issue should of really been done years ago while the Republicans were still the majority in Congress!
Seems the Republicans in congress need a Democrat president to get interested in fiscal responsibility. The speed with which balanced budgets, reduction in the size of government, and paying down the debt got dropped by Washington was stunning.
Yes and no.
Today my salary is $100,000 and I get $80,000 after taxes. I then take that $80K and purchase products. The price of these products contain @ 23% embedded taxes. So I get hit on the income and FICA taxes before I get my money, and then when I spend it I pay the embedded taxes.
With the FairTax my salary is $80,000 and no income or FICA taxes are taken out. When I spend the money I pay a 23% NRST.
Seems a better deal to me.
What is there, some government agent there to grab it out of the "individual's" hand?
Is there a government agent there to grab it out of your hand today when you make a purchase and pay sales tax? No? Well then I guess the NRST would be collected the same way that sales taxes are collected today.
Fair Tax is spin and will only see the life if it can be used to screw the public in new ways.
It hoses all those who have Roth Ira or have set up tax exempt planning.
IOW no thanks unless current estate and financial planning is factored in.
from watching c-span this NRST aka fair tax will also tax SERVICES which are not taxed now.
Thus Dr. Services, Legal Services, and any other service will be taxed which was not taxed before.
And today that drug dealer sells $10,000 worth of drugs and thus is liable for income and FICA taxes but doesn't pay a penny.
You want to get in to sematics about who pays it and claim it is the buyer. Under the fairtax, it is the seller who pays it.
The buyer pays ALL taxes. While yes, legally the retailer "pays" it and submits it to the government, you know, I know, everyone knows (or should know) that the one who really "pays" it is the consumer.
I have to convince my customer that my goods are worth $100 eventhough I only get to keep $77. A drug dealer or prostitute doesn't. They cheat the fairtax system, period.
As do your competitors. Do the drug dealers and prostitutes cheat the income tax system?
Please explain to me the real world, actual difference to you the consumer when you take make a $100 purchase today with 23% embedded taxes in it and under the FairTax take money from your Roth and make a $100 purchase with a 23% NRST?
HA! You think when you hire a plumber he hasn't factored his taxes into his hourly rate?
Who will follow the plumber around to make sure he is properly collecting and remitting the FairTax?
Who follows him around today to make sure when you pay him in cash he properly accounts for it and pays income and FICA taxes? Or when you write a check to him in his name instead of to a corporate name?
I thought the purpose of the FairTax was to improve collections with a minimum of government intrusion, not be just as bad as...
I thought the FairTax was to remove the massive government intrusion into every Americans personal finance while removing the hidious income tax and payroll taxes and shrink the IRS down to a much much smaller size.
Services presently add their payroll taxes and income taxes, personal and business to their cost structure, as well as those passed on from their suppliers and contractors.
When we pay for services we are paying these embedded taxes but they are not listed or broken down, they are not visible to us.
The FairTax ***replaces*** these taxes that we do not presently see.
So when you say the NRST will tax services which are not taxed now, you are mistating it.
The correct statement is:
“... from watching c-span this NRST aka fair tax will also tax SERVICES which are not taxed EXPLICITLY now.”
But keep in mind the FairTax only applies to the consumer, not the business itself. For example, a builder will not pay the NRST to his lumber supplier, the lumber supplier will not pay an NRST to the lumber transport provider or the lumber mill, etc.
The FairTax rolls all the federal embedded taxes up into one retail level tax. It does not relieve anyone from having to pay taxes, it merely changes the process of tax collection, to make it more efficient, less intrusive, less prone to abuse or manipulation. It also enables American manufacturing to be more competitive overseas where there is no NRST.
The only shock imposed by the FairTax is that it will make hidden federal taxation visible to the consumer for the first time since 1913. Even when price stability is established and the amount of purchases are the same, the consumer will see federal taxation at every purchase. This will be a reoccurring reminder to the electorate of the level of federal taxation.
again the fair tax SCREWS the service industry.
It turns small companies into tax collectors.
Thanks but your points make me even more certain I do now want the NATIONAL SALES TAX (aka Fair Tax scam) anywhere near my business.
The BUSINESS is going to have to hold this money, the business will have to pay this money out to the government.
This is no different than stores that have to collect sales taxes, or gas stations which has to deposit gas taxes. This is ON TOP OF LOCAL TAXES!!!!! (Lets not even discuss all the loss of internet sales to us locations. given the flight from US businesses)
MORE PAPERWORK FOR BUSINESSES?
Are these people INSANE to pay 20 MILLION DOLLARS to produce this snake oil!
I was really on the fence with this, did not pay attention but DAMN!!
It DESTROYS all previous financial planning.
It GIVES US MORE BUREACRATS intruding in our lives.
It institutionalizes “where did you buy that” taxation when you buy from taxfree havens.
It taxes the service industry.
It cripples US internet sales.
It creates a NEW ENTITLEMENT WITH THE PRE-BATE!!!! (that is the MOST BONEHEAD snake oil part)
Fair Tax= Snake Oil. There is NOTHING FAIR about this SCAM to put in a national sales tax.
THANKS for convincing me further.
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